Understanding China, One Blog at a Time

An American in China

New and Improved Blog Rules Version 4.3

Posted by w_thames_the_d on October 14, 2010

justeasyfun-compic from justeasyfun.com

William Thames, Now just a visitor to purgatory-China… but still blogging about the trauma of life there

making his way across southern China now, stay tuned.

I had posted my blog rules a while ago and decided to change them. The old ones can be found here. Now, for the new and improved version…This site gives and irreverent and sometimes crude view of living and working all over China. It is not one of those ‘yippe yippe, look at how great China is’ sites. If you want that go here or here.In this site for the low low price of nothing, you get to hear me use potty mouth words and denigrate China, or treat it with the respect it deserves. For this same price, you get to hear Gowron, aka The King, share his China insights and use the politically incorrect term for coitus quite often. You will also hear the words of the ‘soothsayer of the midwest’ aka Brewskie, who manages to comment on China without being nearly as crude as the other two humble authors.You will read and see things that you never thought were possible in civilization, because they are not. China, as it stands today, does not, for the most part meet that definition-imho. If any of this is disconcerting to you then please stick your head back in the sand and run from this blog.. Winning The Day Oh yeah click here to go to a site where you can buy goods not made in China….or you can search to buy here too

93 Responses to “New and Improved Blog Rules Version 4.3”

  1. Hahahaha! You are so spot-on with this post! I remember when we first came here and I saw the whole “let-your-kid-relieve-himself-anywhere” phenomenon, I was just incredulous. I still find it flabbergasting.

    I think making this post sticky (had to look that up to find out what it was) is a great idea. Also, I’m reblogging this on my site, hope that’s ok. I have a few other comments I want to make over there for all my family and friends who just can’t quite believe me.

    • wtdevflnt said

      Loved your post and I learned something, you said you ‘rebloggged’ it? I see what you mean but do not know how to do that, I am quite ignorant of all this blog stuff. BTW I forwarded your post on the carbon credits in your home to my sister, she loved it, said you have a ton of talent!!!

  2. […] Also, just after we arrived here we were driving at night and coming off the toll road. Suddenly a whole bunch of cars were pulled off to the side of the road near a small ravine. It was dark, I got no sense of urgency, and I thought, “What are they doing? Night fishing?? Later it dawned on me, umm, no. Not night fishing. ROFL!!! On my trip back to sanity (USA) I learned quite a few things, not the least of which is that most of the people of my beloved country are so ill-prepared and ill-informed- (just as I was, until living here) of what China is like, and much of what I am stating on this blog may appear to be so fantastic as to be fake or a figment of my imagination. As an example, when I asked people back home about what they know of China, it was zilch, basically a … Read More […]

  3. When I first visited China in 1999, my wife pointed out that the Chinese men I saw peeing in a public park or defecating in public (there weren’t many public toilets then–China started building public toilets to get ready for the 2008 Olympics) in the middle of Shanghai were peasants.

    In fact, where my wife grew up in Shanghai (in the picturesque French sector), there was one toilet in a three story house where several families lived. The stove those families used was next to the toilet. Years later, after she and her siblings had left home, they pooled their money to have a toilet installed in the bedroom-sized space that made up the family apartment in that building, which used to be one home to a French family during the colonial ear.

    Even though her parents then had their own toilet (not until the 1990s), the converted closet where the toilet was installed was also the kitchen, which they didn’t have to share with seven or so other families.

    Since then, I have learned that China is one country with many cultures and languages. Even rural and urban China is different as the US is to Mexico.

    Rural China up until recently is (or was) almost a kingdom from the middle ages of Europe while urban China is more of a modern state. However, hundreds of millions of rural Chinese migrate to the cities to find jobs that pay better than being a peasant from the middle ages. Unfortunately, these people sometimes called “Stick People” bring their (uncivilized by Western standards) cultural habits with them.

    I’ve seen rural Chinese living in huts made of straw with dirt floors and no plumbing. This is what the Party inherited when it came into power. The Communist Party did not create this situation after 1950. Imagine what America was like before roads, electricity and plumbing and you will gain a better sense of China then.

    After Mao died, the Communist Party had to rebuild an educational system that had been devastated by Mao and even in 1976, there was little or no education system in rural China. Most of the schools in China up until 1950 were in the cities and focused on educating the ruling class. After the Communists won the revolution, the schools were turned into brain washing factories to promote revolutionary Maoism, which Deng Xiaoping’s faction of the Communist Party repudiated after Mao died in 1976.

    IT wasn’t until the 1980s, that the Chinese started to rebuild China’s education system in the cities. Over time, the education system has been spreading into rural China where it never existed before.

    I don’t recall the exact stats I used in previous posts about the literacy level in China when Mao died, but I believe it was about 20% at the time.

    Imagine what the effort it must take to educate a population from the 1980s that could have stepped out of the dark ages of Europe and was 80% illiterate. Before the Party came to power, the ruling class of China (represented by the KMT) was only interested in educating the ruling class. The peasants who mad up more than 90% of China’s population were worth less than farm animals to China’s ruling class.

    • wtdevflnt said

      Thanks and your site is pretty comprehensive. I may post your comments as it adds a touch of reality to the cynicism of my site! http://ilookchina.net/

    • patriot said

      Hey Lloyd it’s good to see that you went from a die hard Marine who defended us from communism to an angry old man with an internet connection who now defends it. I bet the communists from Vietnam would love to see you now.

    • relief said

      Lloyd aka Archie Bunker eh? Yeah it sounds right. It’s nice to see that you have switched sides Lloyd and have decided to ‘enlighten’ all of us with your wisdom. You seem to have spent a lot of time on this site, but didn’t you say it was not one of your favs or something like that? If this is so, then do yourself a favor and stay away. Or at least leave your comments to a ten paragraph minimum, after all, we really do not want to hear WT’s point of view but we’d much rather hear yours right? Isn’t that why there is a cross-pollination of the two sites? Sarcasm intended..

    • Just me said

      Shanghai was historically known as the ‘whore of the orient’. even to this day it has the highest rate of sexually transmitted disease in China. Shanghai, what a great city….

    • Taters said

      Ok Ranger Rick you commie traitor,why dont you turn yourself over to the VC and let them teach you the good of communism, you fake. If you weren’t as old as Montana silt I’d whip your ass you old fool.

  4. Ontario Mike said

    Hey I just passed by your site. Frankly I am sick of hearing of China, but your writing is good so I will hang around a bit. You ought to put up some ads or something, make some money for your time. Anyway, good stuff!

  5. Ontario Mike said, “Frankly I am sick of hearing of China…”

    I’m not surprised.

    The American mind set — maybe Canadian too—unwilling to learn of other cultures and why they are different than the so-called precious Western way of life.

    Since China is still an emerging nation with many in rural China (about 800 million) still living as they lived centuries ago, it is not surprising that a Westerner that grew up in what we call the developed world would be shocked to see people peeing or defecating in public and judge the entire culture as backward.

    Until China started getting ready for the 2008 Olympics, it was difficult to find free public restrooms in even Beijing and Shanghai. China did not have a history of providing services to the public as in North America. In China, private businesses usually provided services to the public and charged for them. China had baths in its cities for people to bathe at a cost, as the Roman Empire did, before Rome built its first public baths.

    When I served in Vietnam, I saw the peasants doing the same thing—stopping to pee or defecate anywhere at any time. Many didn’t bother to drop their pants–just lifted a leg and peed down the side so the pee came out from the pant leg cuff near the foot.

    So, when China’s rural peasants moved to urban China (about 300 million so far during the largest migration in human history with another 200 to 300 million yet to move before 2020), why is it so shocking that they would retain their rural behaviors? Behaviors are learned from birth and those same rural peasants that flooded into the cities to work in factories that make more than the “junk” we often hear of in the Western media but also almost all of Apple’s products, most of the computers and flat screen TVs sold in the US, most of the clothing sold in the US, most of the furniture sold in the US, and more, don’t expect the poor sanitation behaviors to change overnight.

    Also, Ontario Mike, consider that when you ancestors were living in squalid huts infested with fleas and lice, the Chinese had the most powerful civilization on the earth and were building universities and public schools during the Han Dynasty before the birth of Christ. The Chinese invented paper, the printing press (not a Westerner), gunpowder, the multi stage rocket and much more centuries before the West copied them. The Chinese also created the first banking systems and printed money.
    China’s first medical encyclopedias and medical textbooks were written more than a thousand years ago not with the motivation to fix people after they get sick but to educate people how to avoid disease by eating and exercising properly.

    The only reason China was shoved off the stage as a super power during the 19th century after more than two thousand years was because the West caught up and went through the industrial revolution about two centuries before China entered its industrial revolution, which isn’t over yet.

    For those two thousand years when China was a super power more powerful than the Roman Empire and the British Empire until the 19th century, the Chinese considered my and your ancestors to be barbarians. You see, China discovered the world that Christopher Columbus gets the credit for decades before he crossed the Atlantic in his tiny boat. The Chinese sent a fleet with about 30,000 aboard those ships and the largest ship would equal a modern cruise liner. The Chinese learned centuries before the West how to avoid scurvy by growing fresh food hydroponically aboard those ships and this was in the 16th century.

    Now that China is emerging from two centuries of madness and the dark ages, get used to hearing about China because if China achieves its current goals to become another developed nation within the next fifty years, it will be the largest economy on the planet and a super power equal to or surpassing the US.

    What China has already accomplished since writing their new Constitution in 1982 is more than any nation on the earth in recorded history. No nation has developed as fast as China has—not even the US, which took more than two centuries to reach where it is today and China had almost caught up in three decades. All the Chinese need is a few more decades, China will rival the US in all things modern, and the rural children born today will learn to use bathrooms and stop peeing and defecating on the streets so as not to shock ignorant Westerners that spent most of their time watching reality TV and playing video games for “fun”.

    In 2009, China proved that it could compete with the US and beat it at educating its youth when Shanghai students took first place in every category of the international PISA tests that measures which developed countries educate their children the best. When the scores of those three tests were averaged, the US ranked 17th of 65 developed nations. China was number one by an impressive margin but China admitted that there was still much work to do to get the schools throughout all of China to equal those in Shanghai, which is China’s wealthiest and one of the most modern cities.

    In fact, China may surpass the US soon since it is building bullet trains while the US has built none and China is building wind farms off its coasts to harvest electricity where the wind is plentiful while similar projects in the US have been mired in court battles for the last decade and none have been built.

    • Unruly Temperate Aeons said

      the blog writer has mentioned that upon returning to the US no one knew a thing about mainland china.

      since you’re american and you assume we know nothing of other countries, i’ll just throw it back that you obviously know nothing of ours.

      in parts of canada, the situation is different than the US. there about 2-3 million chinese here now,almost 10% of the national population. and some are even 5th and 6th and maybe even 7th generation canadians. they don’t even speak chinese and would rather play hockey and drink beer from the Kootenay glaciers than from the Yangtze river.

      at the same time, apparently there is a waiting list 46,000 strong of ‘investor class’ mainlanders(people with the means to plunk down a $400,000 surety for a residency which after 3 years leads to citizenship, providing no crimes are committed, etc. the surety is soon being raised to $800,000 – 8 for 8 though, totally not for any other reason, besides to increase what basically amounts to a return to the head tax days.)in the 19th and early 20th century there were race riots in vancouver. i’d rather not see it again, thanks.

      i suppose i’m trying to find a diplomatic way to suggest that perhaps canadians of all colors are a little sick of what’s called ‘triumphalism’ in the media re: china. not to mention having to assimilate to or at least publicly feign tolerance of mainland ways in our own (mostly) unspoiled country (on the road, on the sidewalk, getting off and on elevators and trains etc – the spitting, the packed new casinos, the obstinacy, the demand for chinese signage to be mandated by the state with french and english, combined with the refusal to bother learning either national language, since there basically is no point when you isolate yourself in your community ‘ghetto’ because the local community as a whole is seen as not worth the bother or having poor feng shui. either that or they perceive that historically chinese in canada have not been treated well – things are improving re: understanding each other (i hope)and all we can hope for is that the government is not blinded by greed -hah- or has not already been compromised. the CSIS – the canadian spy agency – has reported that 50% of it’s resources go to monitoring chinese activity in canada and then a great number of western politicians have been compromised in regards to their loyalty.)

      i mention all of this as opposed to having it the other way around, “when in rome” and all that.

      i learned conversational mandarin to travel parts of china. it was fun and i plan to take up my studies again.

      and i will bet you a can of coke that even if Zhong He could go back in time 1500 years to 50ad and take his fleet around the cape of africa and through the straits of Gibraltar that the Romans would have absolutely decimated the fleet in a matter of hours. the supply lines for battle would be rather long, considering that whole wind power/oar power conundrum…

      there have been many empires in the history of the west – some very terrifying and mighty and even ones that didn’t tip toe around china – remember the british? they had no respect. remember germany about 72 years ago? the nazis would have mercilessly kicked china’s ass if russia wasn’t in the way, but i guess that’s what they used the japanese for, right? how about america ca. 2002? those were the halcyon days, in hindsight.

      regardless, why do i have to remind an american of his own history? because that’s what a good neighbor does – to maintain perspective.

      You don’t remember Admiral John Ward?


      • Unruly Temperate Aeons said

        they didn’t want to treat you as an equal power then – why would you assume anything has changed?

    • Life said

      Holy shit Lloyd, can you be more fucking tedious? Try this mr wiki. Sit and ponder wtf you want to say and then strike 80% of that and write the remainder here.

    • Taters said

      Frankly Lloyd, Ive only read two of your comments and I already despise you. Could you be more self centered and deprecating? My guess is that you cannot.

      Btw, checked your site, your keen intellect and wisdom no doubt make you the envy of the fourth graders who no doubt frequent your moronic blog.

  6. laoshi said

    To Llyod , I can see OM’s point. Also, regarding China’s sanitary habits, while I don’t expect “the poor sanitation behaviors to change overnight.” I would appreciate it if the next time I go to a fast food place in China that I don’t see a kid taking a shit in the sink while his mom watches over him. If you think I am asking for too much, then I think we will have to agree to disagree.

    • Laoshi,

      I don’t eat in fast food restaurants in China so I’ve never witnessed what you saw. In fact, I refuse to eat fast food even in the US.

      However, I suspect that the invasion of Western fast food in China has done more damage to the health of China’s people than the unsanitary habits you pointed out.

      I would agree that it would be disgusting to watch some woman from the countryside (probably a peasant that must have been from a remote location of rural China) have her child take a dump in a fast food restaurant’s sink where the patrons can see it happening, but what I find more disgusting is the growth if diabetes, heart disease and cancer that is an epidemic in China now that thousands of Western fast food outlets are selling food to the Chinese in thousands of Chinese cities and towns.

      We won’t see the “horrible suffering” of these lifestyle diseases since the suffering takes place in hospitals or bedrooms out of sight of the public.

      • In fact, I think it better that the child took that dump in a sink where it could be washed away down the drain then out in the street. Was there a public restroom available?

      • Taters said

        Hahaha, what an idiot. Sure lloyd, shitting in the sink is better than crapping on the streets. As a matter of fact is your kitchen sink empty, I have to shit right now.
        You elfin tweaker, grow up.

  7. Omar Tabee said

    Not to disagree with your lengthy treatise on all the good in China (Lloyd), but when you say, “ancestors were living in squalid huts infested with fleas and lice, the Chinese had …building universities and public schools during the Han Dynasty”
    If this is true, then why today do the Chinese still live in ‘squalid huts, infested with lice and fleas’? The scene you describe can be found today in those cave dwellings that are so prevalent in China.
    To anyone who has traveled and lived in China, its like a trip to the times of the cavemen. The bottom line is that the life to today in China, is similar to that of any third world despotic existence you would find in Africa.
    Romanticize their checkered past as you will, but the truth is also that China has one of the most barbaric and backwards histories mankind has known.

    • Omar Tabee,

      I find it interesting how most people, even many Chinese, don’t know the history of China and make assumptions that are wrong always casting about for simple answers when there are none.

      I don’t see that I have romanticized China’s past at all. In fact, on my blog I’ve written of incidents such as China’s first emperor and how he had scholars that protested his policy of one written language [after he unified China by conquering the other countries that made up eastern Asia] dig their mass grave then set them on fire while still alive to make a point. The result was one written language that allowed China to unify and stay one country for more than two thousand years ending the endless wars before that time.

      I’ve written of the Taiping Rebellion (and other rebellions), the Opium Wars, the rebellion that ended the last Chinese Imperial Dynasty, the revolutions, wars and civil war that lasted from 1911 to 1949, the failure of Mao’s Great Leap Forward, the horrors of Mao’s Cultural Revolution that lasted from 1950 to 1976, etc.

      However, when I write of these tragedies, instead of demonizing China or the Communist Party or the people that caused them, I put the events into context with the wider historical picture.

      Nothing happens on a global scale without other historical events proceeding and contributing to what happens later. History is like a chain and all one has to do is follow the links back in time to see what caused what to happen when and why—cause and effect.

      If you are referring to the failures and suffering during Mao’s twenty-six years as the modern emperor of China, the Communist Party cannot be blamed for all that happened. However, we can blame revolutionary Maoism. In fact, the entire top leadership of the Communist Party voted against Mao when he launched the Cultural Revolution ten years before his death and those nine men tried to stop what Mao was doing. Mao then either arrested or had killed most of those nine men removing the Communist Party from power.

      One of those nine, Deng Xiaoping, managed to escape to southeast China and live with his family under the protection of a powerful PLA general only to come out of the shadows after Mao died and reclaim China by repudiating revolutionary Maoism and opening China to world trade leading to the economic miracle that is taking place in China now.

      I disagree with the statement you made, “China has one of the most barbaric and backwards histories mankind has known.”

      China has had its problems but so has the West as every powerful civilization in history. In World War I and World War II, tens of millions died and China has never marched people into gas chambers as Hitler and the Nazi’s did killing millions of Jews, Christians and others. In fact, after Hitler came to power, China was one of the few countries that allowed Jews to live there in safety without fear of persecution.

      If you were referring to Genghis Khan’s brutal conquest of Asia, the Middle East, much of Russia and all the way to Europe and the Danube, you would be wrong because he was a Mongol and not Chinese. At the time, China did not rule over Mongolia. Instead, they spent centuries building the Great Wall to protect themselves from those barbarians since Mongols often raided into northern China below the Great Wall as the Tibetans did from their high plateau up until the 13th century when they adopted Buddhism as a religion, which was introduced by a Mongol king.

      Kublai Khan, Genghis Khan’s grandson, later conquered China and founded the Yuan Dynasty, which expanded the Chinese Empire while being ruled by a Mongol—not a Han Chinese.

      If you were referring to the horrors of the warring states period before the first emperor unified China under one ruler, you would also be wrong since China was not one country but many at a time when bloody wars were waged between these countries for centuries but that was more than two millennia ago and during the Han Dynasty, the adoption of Confucian philosophy brought long periods of peace and harmony to China that lasted for centuries before a dynasty failed and anarchy (and much suffering) ruled until the next dynasty formed and restored harmony and tranquility again.

      If you examined history, you would discover that ALL successful civilizations and cultures have maintained that power with barbaric acts of violence. The Greeks under Alexander the Great and the Roman Empire was no different in its barbaric acts against those it conquered and defeated than the successful dynasties of China. European nations have waged many wars between each other.

      China is a complex culture with both very primitive rural environments and complex, modern urban cities.

      Anyone that travels extensively in China will discover this diversity of cultures and lifestyles.

      Starting in the 1980s, China begins to modernize on a massive scale and those changes started at the urban level where China rebuilt cities. The World Bank and the United Nations both have said that China has reduced poverty more than any other developing nation while India has done almost nothing to improve horrible conditions of poverty among more than four hundred million people.

      In fact, the UN and the World Bank both say that what has taken place in China the last thirty years is unparallel in the history of humanity.

      There are about 800 million Chinese that live in rural China today. That leaves about 500 million living in the urban areas and 480 million are not linked to the Internet—more people than any other nation on the planet.

      Even in ancient times, rural China was a different place from urban China. In the cities and near them, the Chinese were often educated, cultured and into the arts, while the further one lived from those cultural centers the more backward and primitive the rural people lived.

      How many of these Chinese live in the caves you claim exist today?

      According to the CIA Fact book, China has improved the standard of living for more people than any nation on the earth in all of history and this was done in the last thirty years. That doesn’t mean everyone lives a life equal to the middle class lifestyles of an American or European but many of the rural Chinese you claim live in caves have improved their lifestyles slowly over the last three decades but not all. The CIA estimated that about two and a half percent of China’s population still lives in severe poverty but most of them live in very remote locations in China.

      After all, China covers almost as much land area as the US but is more rugged with more mountains and deserts than the US. While the US has about 60% of its land available for growing food, China uses about 10% since much of it is too rugged to grow food on.

      China is a country with more than fifty-six spoken languages and many dialects. The only unifying force is that one written language mandated by an emperor that died more than two thousand years ago.

      China’s 56 minorities (about 100 million) are encouraged to live the lifestyles they have lived for centuries and in some cases, those lifestyles are very primitive. This means the central government doesn’t force the lifestyles of the majority on the minorities. However, scholarships and support are offered to any minority student that wants to leave one of the minority autonomous regions and attend a major university and China has extended mandatory education to the age of 16 to all of China so even minority students must attend the public schools.

      When Mao died, literacy in China was estimated by the CIA to be 20%. Today literacy in China is more than 90% while India, a next-door neighbor and the largest democracy on the planet, has about 45% of the population living in severe poverty and illiteracy is also about 45%.

      As for backwards, for more than two thousand years up until the 19th century, China was the most advanced nation technologically and militarily on the planet. The Chinese invented paper, the printing press, the compass, gunpowder, the stirrup, the multi stage rocket and many more innovations that didn’t reach the West for centuries.

      The Chinese even discovered what caused scurvy centuries before the West made the connection that a lack of vitamin C was the reason. There is no record of Chinese sailors coming down with scurvy since Chinese ships grew fresh sprouts to feed their crews, as sprouts are rich in vitamin C.

      • I missed a word that should say “now” instead of “not” that refers to the number of people linked to the Internet in China.

      • Me too said

        Holy shit ! Llyod, you have got to be the most boring nag on the internet.

      • Taters said

        Hey Lloyd you left out a word? Wy dont you go back and type out all 4677635637733 words that you just posted again
        You are a sad sack

  8. Ontario Mike said

    To the long winded guy (lofthouse):
    Hey I took your advice and investigated. Yeah we should all hear about China. Did you know that from 1911 to 1999, from 80-110 million Chinese were killed in China by Chinese police and soldiers?

    This means that each year for 89 years from 700,000- 1,100,000 people died in China!

    In addition, did you know that according to Gilbert, Glaser, Possony that more people died from 1955 to 1969 than died in WW2 (est.68-97 million)!
    Yes and all those who died,did so at the hands of fellow Chinese and not some marauding invader. Yes Lofthous, China needs to be studied and put in the news!

  9. Ontario Mike,

    The long- winded guy replies with more wind, “You pick and choose from China’s history and throw out numbers without any context to support a biased and flawed opinion.”

    More happened to explain those deaths you claim took place in China and the chain of events from history started with Portugal building a colony in China during the 16th century. No one asked the Chinese if it was okay and by the time the emperor discovered what the Portuguese had done, it was too late. The fortress of Macau was too well protected.

    Then The British and French waged two wars against China in the 19th century to force the Qing Emperor to allow Western merchants to sell opium to the Chinese. It is estimated that one in three Chinese eventually became addicted to opium leading to the eventual collapse of the Qing Empire in 1911 from rebellion, civil war, chaos and anarchy sweeping across the country killing millions while merchants from the West continued to pump opium into China making huge fortunes.

    American merchants were part of the mix. The British made the most money from the opium trade since they grew the drug in British India.

    The US even sent troops to help fight in the second opium war and again in 1900 to put down the Boxer Rebellion, which was a popular peasant uprising to drive foreigners from China and eventually replace the corrupt and weak Qing Dynasty .

    Another section of the treaty that ended the first Opium War also forced China to allow Christian missionaries to build churches, preach and convert anywhere they wanted in China, which led one converted Chinese Christian to launch a rebellion to turn China into a Christian nation. However, the man known as God’s Chinese son claimed to be the younger brother of Jesus Christ and he wrote his own gospel and added it to the New Testament then started printing millions of bibles for Nanjing, his capital. At one point, he ruled over one third of China.

    Who helped the Qing Dynasty put down a popular Christian Taiping Rebellion? Brittan and France, two Christian countries that sent troops to join with Imperial armies. One would think that Christian countries would have welcomed a Christian rebellion in China but one fact stands out. The Christian leader of the Taipings wanted Opium out of China.

    Historians say that 20 to 100 million may have died in the Christian Taiping rebellion alone and another Islamic rebellion in the north west added more than ten million more deaths to the total.

    While the Qing Dynasty was putting down those two rebellions, it was also under pressure from the British and French to expand the opium trade and allow those Christian missionaries more freedom to convert the “heathen” Chinese that had done fine as a nonreligious dominated civilization for several thousand years.

    The Opium would flow into China until after 1949 when the Communists came to power. At least one million of the deaths you mention were the dealers that were executed by Mao’s army soon after he came to power. In a twenty-four hour period, Mao ended opium addiction in China by cutting the supply line from the West. Most of the opium at that time was grown in British India.

    In addition, soon after the collapse of the Qing Dynasty, the leader of the republican rebellion, Sun Yat-sen, a Chinese that was educated in Hawaii where he became a Christian and Western trained MD, asked America for help to end the anarchy and deaths that were sweeping China. Sun Yat-sen dreamed of a republic modeled after the US.

    The US government turned him down. Sun Yat-sen then turned to the other Western democracies for support. They all turned him down. His last choice was Soviet Russia and they said yes. The rest is history.

    It’s amazing how the estimates of those that died after 1949 keep going up. The one number I’ve read is about 30 to 40 million. Most died from starvation during Mao’s failed Great Leap Forward. Mao was a great guerrilla fighter but a poor leader.

    History of every civilization is filled with war and death. For example, when Europeans arrived in the Americas, the natives that had lived her for ten thousand or more years were either killed or died from diseases that were introduced by the invaders.

    Jumping forward a bit, the US government was behind the revolution that eventually led to Hawaii becoming a state.

    After the Indian wars ended din the US, America fought a war with Spain. When that was over, the US occupied the Philippians where the army that defeated the American natives was sent to quell rebellions for Philippians independence and low estimates are that US troops killed at least a quarter million there.

    We have more numbers of innocent people caused by both sides of the Korean War and Vietnam. In Vietnam, the US left behind as many as two million dead civilians from bombings and agent orange, which is till causing birth defects in that nation and deaths from Vets in the US that served in that war.

    In fact, the deaths you mention are but a small part of the picture from history that was the result of a clash between two cultures, the West and the East.

    The China we see today emerging as an economic and military power is the East rising from the ashes of a fire started by the West. In the 18th century when King George of England sent representatives to the wealthiest and most powerful ruler on the earth, the Qianlong Emperor, the emperor wrote a letter to King George that said, we don’t need to trade with anyone else. China has everything it needs. Leave us alone. In the 19th century, China grew weak and the West pounced.

    It is all about history, evolution, and the strong defeating the weak. China was weak in the 19th and 20th centuries but now it is emerging as a global power from a base of strength while the West declines. The results of this shift may not appear until the next century. Power shifts such as these have happened across the globe for millennia.

    It has nothing to do with who is to blame for what. It’s just the evolution of history and those that do not adapt perish.

    • Ontario Mike said I’m “Long Winded”.

      When someone makes a simple short statement that is wrong and missleading, it often takes a long, complex answer to set the record straight, or face more simple, short statements from ignorant people while no one learns the facts.

      • Unruly Temperate Aeons said

        ah your misunderstanding of english idioms betrays your role in the wu mao dang! (5 cent gang)

        what about the concept of mercy? like if america was on it’s last legs – the sick man of north america – would a foreign power be justified in subjugating the US into a vassal state and extract it’s wealth by forcing enormous quantities of socially devastating narcotics into it’s cities?

        in regards to your anecdote about the chinese emperor dismissing the british request for trade, the british were actually told in the missive sent back with their emissary that “your gifts of tribute are pleasant but of no importance to us (i believe there was a telescope/looking glass of some kind, a clock, some other typically british sea-faring gadgetry etc. and basically thank you for your mandatory acquiescence to the middle kingdom. you can send the rest of the tribute tomorrow.”

        i hope you can see i’m exaggerating a little but that’s basically how the exchange went. yours was a glossing over of the total dismissal of british overtures for trade – really the british and americans wanted to sell ACTUAL goods to China, but opium was the biggest profit margin – even today, every time you see a Barclay’s bank – know that it started with an opium warehouse in Kowloon.

        the americans had similar experiences haggling over the number of kow tows and knee bending – but for some reason the americans of 150 years ago had a little more self respect than the ones today.

        when prime minister of canada, steven harper made a visit to beijing 3 years after being elected, he was berated on state television by premier wen jiabiao “why are you late?”

        fuckity bye!

  10. Patient Ontario Mike said

    Ok Long Wind (Lloyd)
    To summarize, we agree
    1-that up to 40 million Chinese died at the hands of Chinese from late 1950 to early 1960
    2-that up to 7-10 million Chinese died in the cultural revolution, at the hands of Chinese by Chinese
    I do not know if you agreed with the figures prior to 1949, but that is what the research shows. As for that of the Qin dynasty and opium etc. It has nothing to do with my point. If 33% of them decided to get high, then AA would say its a decision they made, but as I said, I dont care about their addictive ways.
    My point is
    that from 700,000 to 1,100,000 Chinese died at the hands of Chinese for 89 years. And thus, based upon these barbaric numbers, China is a scary place that we should all be concerned about.

    • Unruly Temperate Aeons said

      there is a story of the writer Somerset Maughn visiting china in the 19th century and on a hill outside of a town there was the local “baby hole.”

      not unlike ancient romans leaving their babies on a hill to die of exposure, really. but that’s 2000 years apart, so.. yeah.

  11. Ontario Mike,

    And how many millions died in World War II due to Germany and Japan? (I’ve read at least 50 million and that number doesn’t include the thirty million that died in China at the hands of Japanese troops)

    And how many millions died in World War I in Europe due to Germany and Italy?

    And how many native Americans died when Europe invaded North and South America?

    And how many Europeans died during the wars between the Protestants and Catholics?

    And how many Europeans died during the religious wars that followed the reformation?

    And how many Russians died because of Marx, Lenin and Stalin?

    How many died in Africa the last hundred years due to wars of ethnic and religious hatred?

    How many died in what was once Yugoslavia due to ethnic and religious hatred? I am talking about Serbia, Bosnia, etc. where millions were slaughtered due to their religious beliefs.

    How many died in Vietnam and Indochina due to the French invasion and then the American one?

    How many died in Korea?

    How many Cathers died when the Catholics decided to eradicate that Christian sect from France?

    How many Albanians died at the hands of the Turks?

    How many Jews have been persecuted for almost two thousand years?

    Here’s a site that lists all the wars going back thousands of years?


    What happened in China the last century is not unique. However, it is easy for China’s critics to point out what has happened in China without mentioning that the rest of humanity is just as bloodthirsty.

    • patriot said

      Lloyd you need to dig a little deeper into Chinese history. Since the birth of Christ the Chinese have had around 300 years of peace, that is all. Please do not state that the past 100years were anything but typical for China.

  12. Patient Ontario Mike said

    Mr. Lofthouse,
    The answer to all of your questions is easy:
    The answer to all of the above IS LESS than the amount killed at the hands of the Chinese by the Chinese
    “according to Gilbert, Glaser, Possony that more people died from 1955 to 1969 than died in WW2 (est.68-97 million)!”

  13. Patient Ontario Mike said

    Mr. Lofthouse, you actually are assisting me in making my point. Through all of the examples you provided, with a few exceptions, the death was the result of some outside influence or invader, whereas in China it was Chinese killing Chinese for no reason.

  14. Ontario Mike,

    It’s all a matter of opinion and which source you referenced.


    This list is not by year but by deaths and two are listed as “Mostly Famine” linked to Mao and British India.

    There’s a big difference between starving to death due to the lack of food and being blown up, shot, stabbed, raped, sent to the gas chambers and burned to a crisp as the US did in Europe and Japan during World War II sometimes dropping enough napalm on a city to kill tens of thousands in one night. Then there is the fact that the US dropped two atomic bombs on Japan incinerating hundreds of thousands in an instant, which no other nation has done (so far).

    1. 63 million Second World War
    2. 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine)
    3. 40 million Genghis Khan
    4. 27 million British India (mostly famine)
    5. 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty
    6. 20 million Taiping Rebellion
    7. 20 million Joseph Stalin
    8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade
    9. 17 million Timur Lenk (I haven’t heard of this one before)
    10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade (That’s us and South America)
    11. 15 million First World War
    12. 15 million Conquest of the Americas
    13. 13 million Muslim Conquest of India
    14. 10 million An Lushan Revolt (another one I haven’t read about)
    15. 10 million Qin Dynasty (China’s first emperor more than two thousand years ago)
    16. 9 million Russian Civil War
    17. 8 million Fall of Rome
    18. 8 million Congo Free State
    19. 7½ million Thirty Years War (Religious war in Europe)
    20. 7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty (When the Ming Dynasty drove the Mongols out of China)

    •”The destruction of the Indians of the Americas was, far and away, the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world.” David E. Stannard, American Holocaust: the Conquest of the New World (1992)

    •”The Mohammedan Conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history.” Will Durant, The Story of Civilization: I – Our Oriental Heritage (1935) page 459.

    •”Little did we guess that what has been called the century of the common man would witness as its outstanding feature more common men killing each other with greater facilities than any other five centuries together in the history of the world.” Winston Churchill

    Then there is the slave trade, which is still active today. Estimates say there are more slaves today than at any time in history.


    • Gowron said

      What about the children squished in “Daofu” schools in 2008? What about the numerous deaths since 1979?

      What of Emperior Deng, further murdering scholars. (To think what china would be like today, if those brainacs were still alive!

      What of the Melaline Bao baos??

  15. Ontario Mike,

    Long Winded’s second source of world wide deaths:

    Here’s another source but this one has low and high estimate and is broken down into categories.
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll

    1. World War II – 40 to 72 million (worldwide) 1937 to 1945 (this includes Japan’s invasion of China)
    2. An Shi Rebellion – 33 to 36 million (China) 755 to 763 AD (Medieval warfare)
    3. Mongol Conquests – 30 to 60 million – 1207 to 1472 AD (listed as Mongol and Tatar invasions) The Han Chinese had nothing to do with this.
    4. Qing Dynasty conquest of the Ming Dynasty – 25 million (Manchu not Han Chinese – this was an invasion of China from Manchuria which was a separate nation at the time). This was not caused by the Han Chinese but was the result of an invasion of China by another nation and race.
    5. Taiping and Dungan Rebellions – 20 to 30 million – 1851 to 1864 AD (This was a Christian revolt in China to overthrow the Qing (Manchu) Dynasty and restore China to Han rule and convert China to Christianity. This was caused by religions that came to China and Christianity was forced on China after the Opium Wars.
    6. World War I – 15 to 65 million – 1914 to 1918 (Europe)

    1. The Holocaust in Europe – about 5 to 11 million (1941 to 1945)
    2. Holodomor and Soviet famine if 1932 to 1933 – 2 1/2 to 10 million in the Ukraine and USSR. I believe this is the one where Stalin surrounded a large farming area with the Soviet military and blocked all food from getting in so the farmers that refused to give up their land would die and new people could be sent to replace them as collectives.
    3. European colonization of the Americas – 2 to 10 million (1492 to 1900)
    In fact, of 31 GENOCIDES listed, only one was caused by Han Chinese recently persecuting the Falun Gong religious cult with deaths from 3,000 to 162,000. I would say the European colonization of the Americas, Asia and Africa has China beat easily in this category.

    1. The Great Chinese Famine (1959 to 1962) 20 to 43 million
    2. Northern Chinese Famine (1876 to 1879) 9 to 13 million
    Note: About ten percent of China’s land may be used to grow food. In comparison, the United States, which is about the size of China, may grow food crops on about sixty percent of the land. Due to this, China has a high risk of famine due to the size of its population.
    3. Soviet Famine (1932 to 1939) six to twenty million – this may have been another Stalinist purge
    4. British ruled India (three famines from 1876 to 1900) Eleven to about twenty-four million people starved to death.
    5. The Great Irish Famine (1846 to 1849) 750,000 to 1,500,000

    1. European colonization of Asia and Africa (1758 to 1970) fifty to sixty million deaths

  16. Patient Ontario Mike said

    Thanks again for providing the stats (Lloyd). And not to be redundant but you have actually bolstered my point. The incidences you have posted are Chinese-on-Chinese violence, thereby showing what a vicious people they are. BTW, I do not care if it is a Han or not, I am stating that as a country they are barbaric.

  17. Ontario Mike,

    You are wrong and I can see this is a waste of time–if you have a need to have the last word, be my guest. I won’t respond to your next comment.

    You are clearly the type of individual incapable of admitting when he is wrong. The evidence I provided shows that every civilization and culture is capable of barbaric practices in times of war and Western civilizations (since Columbus found a route to the Americas) have caused more death and suffering in Asia, the Americas and Africa than the Han Chinese have in more than two thousand years since China was first unified under the first emperor.

    The famines that killed so many people in China (under Mao’s leadership) and India under British leadership (including Ireland) are not signs of barbaric behavior unless the leadership had the food in storage and refused to feed the people as Stalin did to twenty million.

    Many factors cause famines. The biggest factor is a shortage of food. No one caused those deaths in China by dropping napalm, Agent Orange or atomic bombs killing millions of noncombatants as the US has done. No one forced people to walk into gas chambers as the Germans did in World War II.

    The million in China starved because there wasn’t enough food. The reason there wasn’t enough food was because Mao made wrong decisions that led to food shortages. He was stupid–not barbaric.

    In fact, the Han Chinese under Mao ‘s twenty years of rule probably killed less people through violence acts than the US did bombing civilians in Vietnam for more than a decade. Spraying Agent Orange in Vietnam was barbaric. Dropping atomic bombs on cities in Japan killing the elderly, women and children was barbaric. When the Japanese raped the city of Nanjing, China and went on beheading sprees in the streets that was barbaric.

    My father-in-law was twelve when the Japanese occupied Shanghai and he watched from a window as a ten-year-old cousin got beheaded in the street in front of his house by a sword carrying Japanese officer competing with another officer to see who could behead the most Chinese before dark. That was barbaric.

    Other readers who do not have your biases may see the evidence for themselves that all of humanity is equally capable of barbaric behavior when it comes to war and death.

    You judge others as barbarians based on your biases and personal concept of what a barbarian is, which accepts every action of the West as civilized even with the huge number of deaths caused by the spread of Western civilizations after the Americas were discovered and the colonization of Africa and the invasion of the Middle East, India, Asia and the Pacific by European Imperil powers, which includes the US.

    After the Spanish American War, America occupied the Philippians and in many barbaric acts killed an estimated quarter of a million people to subdue the call for freedom in the Philippians. Americans were responsible for the rebellion in Hawaii that led to the overthrow of the Hawaiian king eventually making Hawaii a province of the US then a state. That was a barbaric act.

    When Western merchants from Britain, France, Portugal, Germany and America were selling opium to the Chinese people, that was barbaric. Britain, France and America sent troops to wage war on China to force the emperor to allow opium to be sold to his people. That led to a quarter to a third of China’s population to become addicted to opium by 1900.

    Greed is barbaric. The greed from Wall Street in New York in 2008 that led to the global financial crises leading to 64 trillion dollars in global losses and tens of millions of lost jobs (9 million in the US and 20 million in China) was barbaric.

    While you condemn the Chinese and ignore the barbarity of other cultures around the world, which includes Middle Eastern and Western cultures, I do not condemn them because it is all part of living with evolution and surviving or becoming extinct. IT is a fact, that when it comes to survival of a species or culture, to survive often leads to barbarous acts.

    To understand that all races and all cultures will act barbaric when it comes to survival and the ability to adapt against overwhelming challenges you would have to read “Living With Evolution or Dying Without it written by K. D. Koratsky to understand.

    Barbaric acts are natural when a nation, culture, species is threatened with extinction—it is evolution. Those that survive by any means possible win—even using barbaric means. Those that lose become extinct and being a barbarian may be the wrong choice.

    However, how many times throughout recorded history has anyone culture that acted out of humanitarian principals survived against a hoard of barbarians such as those that fought under Genghis Khan or Alexander the Great?


    When needed, to survive, America will commit barbarous acts as it did in World War II dropping napalm and atomic bombs on innocent noncombatants of all ages in Germany and Japan.

    When Mao’s methods of governing China led to famine and mass starvation, when he died, his revolutionary Maoist methods died with him and China became a hybrid capitalist-socialist economy that trades with the world. Mao’s ideology didn’t work. China adapted and survived. In 1982, China wrote a new constitution leading to term limits and mandatory retirement for all politicians at age 67. Since Mao, China has had several presidents because every five to ten years the prior president must step down.

    Adapt or survive.

    • Come on said

      Great Point! Now we should all hail the new and improved communists, the one’s who locked up Nobel Peace winner on Christmas Day, and still hold him under lock and key. The same ones who are stealing the land from the common folk all the while touting peace and harmony. Come on get off your high horse. Anyone who has lived in China knows the truth, so in your mind you can paint any picture you want.

  18. Sorry, I should have ended with “Adapt to Survive” not “Adapt or Survive”.

    When Mao’s ideas failed leading to tens of millions of deaths through starvation and a million or so deaths during the horrors of the Cultural Revoution, China adapted and repudiated revolutionary Maoism creating another form of government–a hybrid mix that adopted some Western economic and political models but not all.

  19. “What this means is that in order to help those with little knowledge of the middle kingdom, I will try to illustrate the more outstanding claims, ie. the accounts of public defecation/urination etc, with photos when I can, but I also implore you to just trust me on this one and many of my assertions.”

    I just remembered something that happened decades ago. I went to a movie in a theater in Los Angeles County and there was this couple sitting a few rows in front of me with a child that had to pee. He begged his parents to take him to pee. They gave him an empty giant bucket of popcorn to fill. Several people got up in disgust and moved while the little boy stood there and urinated in the empty giant popcorn bucket. The parents laughed.

    Does that make America a land filled with barbarians?

    • Lionel t-bone said

      Dude you are so busted! That line comes from the chinadaily troll Archie Bunker! So is your name Archie or Lloyd?

    • informed said

      Lloyd, just one question, who the heck are you? You said that we should just ‘trust you’ and my head went wtf? Come on, what makes you different than any of the other bazillion people in the blogosphere? You say that you have single handedly disproven certain contentions about Chinese and blah blah, but can’t we all make similar claims.
      Your comments show no ingenuity nor ‘ah ha’ insight, which leads me to become bored out of my wits within nanoseconds. Allow us to trust whom we please.
      Oh yeah, please spare us a grandfatherly speech about your ‘junk’ your Rambo-like strolls, your military past and such. If we really wanted to know more about you, we’d ask. And of course you will reply as you need to get in the last words, but do us all a favor and keep it to less than 100 words or so.

  20. Patient Ontario Mike said

    Cool and thanks for giving me the last word.

  21. Gowron said

    To Lloyd,

    Keep praising my Chinese people. I’ll, keep on being busy watching “reality TV” and playing video games, researching early English feminist writings and submitting my findings to the wikipedia and the University of Alberta.

    Where were my noble ancestors, when your “lice ridden” ancestors were fighting for human rights and dignity? Oh yes, building palaces and perpeptuating an ancient mysogenistic patriarchal society. Perhaps this is why there don’t seem to be that many females in the higer echelons of the Poliburo, as was the Imperial courts?

    Where were great classical Chinese civilized scholastic ancestors, when your “lice hut dwelling” forebearers fought for a truly unified human race with equal rights and emancipation legislature? Oh yes, they were claiming that all black skinned people were savage head hunters,

    How did it come to be, that your lice savaged ancestors built one of the rare places where liberty, academic freedom, and the RULE of LAW prevail (Hong Kong), while my ancestors are trying to bribe the guards in hell? It says alot about a society when even in their afterlife they can still corrupt.

    Why must people look at the Industrial revolution as only a bad thing, of racism, exploitation? What about the reformers, what about those who tried to help China? the missionaries. Such as Gladys Alward (am I referring to the right person)? What about the white missionaries who built all those FREE hospitals in Hong Kong (note there is no medicare, most of the medicare are granted through these charitable organizations). Are they “Lice hut dwelling” ancestors?

    On another note, since you are very familiar with Chinese Jingonism. My ancestors have alot of nerve to complain about Japan’s barbarism. When China has inflicted these sufferings onto others. (See Bo-rens, and other people exterminated, or nearly exterminated by the brave Chinese Gyan Yu (a murderous psychopath. It’s like worshiping Hitler as a God, or Stalin, or Joesph Kony (apparently this juju voodoo warrior is chanelling an ancient “Chinese General”). And as the rules of Karma dictate as you sow you shall reap.

    Since my ancestors were nothing but a bunch of REMORSELESS holy warriors of heaven. (Insert any Martial arts movie) who don’t seem to want to learn their lesson. STOP fighting, stop plunging Asia into a sea of blood. (well we seem to worship some Super hero Monkey King who fights heaven).

    Much is said about the sick minds that came up with “Land mines”, and Grenades.. and “Flame Throwers”. These things are cool in Video games. Not reality. Europe is covered with these things!

    You have to wonder what kind of a sick mind comes up with multiple ways to hurt each other. Of course it’s important for self defense to protect yourself from violent people. But 1000-cuts?!?? The Crossbow? the Porculine, bombs!?!??!?

    And the multiple ancient Chinese literature dedicated to Epics of war vs say a bunch of lice infected hut dwelling Greeks, discovering democracy, and multivoiced discourses to solve problems. Rather than a Holy Emperior, who silenced such voices?

    Since we’re on the topic of really old civilizations, the classical world Ur, Hit, Sumarria, Babylon, all had strong human rights classical laws, BEFORE confusis was convieved!

    The reason why China is the “Center” of the world, geographically they occupy this blob of messy messy land, inbetween other cultures, (very much like a big bellied bully), and they tend to bully others to comply with their demans, (Vietnam, other nations that was absorbed by China, Korea and Japan), and china cries when the bullied fight back in self defense (isn’t this what Chinese kung fu arts are for after all?).

    I feel deeply ashamed for the suffering my ancestors have inflicted on the world, and 6000 years head start on the world in the arts of murder, overtakes whatever jingonistic ambitions (ie America, England), inflicted, but what is worse for China? china shows no remorse! no “Stop me before I kill again”.

    The Japanese demons, at least declairs the age of “Peace”, and prominent human rights abusing soldiers have repented and engage in peaceful ways to promote Japan. (The Nippon foundation actively tries to erradicate polio), Japan pressed for democratic change in Burma. The Last remaning Japanese veteran of WWII, runs a advocacy group for Juviniel deliquents to prevent them from devolving into an angry young “Fen-Fen”.

    Chinese youths? use their intellectual gifts and talents and blessings, to vandalize other people’s pages that disagrees with China’s hegmonic jingonism. So we may have invented the printing press, are we truly worth it? All these Childish Fen Fen games?

    How are Asian youths playing video games, and looking up pop stars, different from American youths playing video games and looking up pop stars? The difference?

    And since you’re a scholar of history? You know very well who attacked first! China, Twice. With such a historically psychotic my people were and are, how the hell is Japan suppose to react? Especially with such a country in chaos. All kinds of bleep can happen. But we all know that the Japanese were brutal brutes. War is hell, so therefore wouldn’t the culture that constanly crafts this existance be a hell like place? (and no, no matter how you flower up Wu Shu, Wing Chung. It’s goal is to break bones, and disable, if my people were such an enlightened and peaceful race of inventors and intellectuals, why have a need for “locks”, sword play, projectile weapons, explosives, and using the body as a deadly weapon)….

    China attacked first! It behaved, behaves like that really angry loud child that’s having a temper tandrum when you go to Superstore, and they don’t get their candy. And they knock everything over. Han expanded his civilization by stealing other children’s hard earned property

    (ie Vietnam. This is why they dont’ have much of a culture. Han boy keeps on punching Viet in the face. And Viet is sick of it. Viet grew up and matured and went to college became an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer. (For starters, Wayne Cao a Vietnamese poltician in Alberta, has raised math geniuses for sons), Alberta is blessed with Vietnamese.. But Han, what the hell did he grow up into? A Gang member, a Gangsta thug. (see, Stanley Williams, see other Death Row mutants).

    Mr Korg (Korea), what did he become? he grew into a mechnical engineer… He lost his sister….

    what did Mr Nipon, grow up into? a cartoonist, who channled his fustrations into perfected art…. (see Genki rockets, J-pop, Yatta, and all other funny memes that “lice ridden” pill popping, trailer trash dwelling, video game playing, youtube watching whites….

    Mr Nippon also invented lots of crazy gadets that DELIGHT children. (Mr Han, BRUTALIZES CHILDREN). Mr Nippon also helps handicapped athletes (literaly, he’s played by different people, but he’s a mascot for the Para games). Sure Mr Nippon has a very very weird notion for erotica, but at least he is willing to live and let live.

    Mr Han can’t take this anymore. For thousands of years he’s been the alpha bully of his frightened classmates. a Biff Tannen like fat headed, square faced brute…..

    He can’t stand the fact that his people are leaving China, to be better people (you can’t imagine how many people crammed the European, American, and other Asian pavillions).

    Will Mr Han continue to be the neighborhood Gangbanger, or will he grow up? Even Canada’s most notrious gangster Pappilya, wished he “finished highschool”.

    Nobody likes Chav like idiot Fen Fen youths thug tweenagers, it’s embaressing and people usually grow out of all this by their late 20s. Get on with their lives.

    Hack on you morons hack on! Keep wasting precious study time. your Chinese Can-merican peers who have nothing to do with Chinese culture, save a anarchonistic view of a romantasized version of Chinese Jingonism (Let’s face it, as brutal and as murderous as my people were and are… Kung Fu is awesome. Who doesn’t like it when Lee smashes a Imperial Japanese officer’s face open like that), who doesn’t like playing romance of the 3 heros. And Guan Yu is a awesome God. Klingon like war is very very exciting. But very brutal, people die get hurt.. It hurts when you’re stabbed.

    And the Chinese have spent many many generationsn stabbing. We reap what we sow. What we sowed are the instruments and the craft of death and war.

    The Japanese are at least smart enough to say hey maybe being a Nobunaga awesome dude (see Gyan Yu), isn’t cool in reality. Smashing faces with a BAthleth really isn’t cool. If anything our Chinese ancestors are screaming “noooooooooooo”. We chose Sithism. We deserve Sithism, even when disguised as Heroic Gyan Yu Jedism.

    It’s time for Chinese youths to stop being angry proud beasts, and accept our fellow Japanese Gamers’s apologies and say that Junk food is delicious, looking at T and A on the internet is good, and fair trade is awesome, because all has money, and all can save, and that nubian Asian Gymnasts are perfect form for health, and are quiet hot, if only they weren’t jail bait young. (no wait they’re not. Because, heh arn’t they “older”).

    This is how Asian youths over here in Can-merica live. Scarfing pizza, drinking and partying in suburbia, looking at T and A, then eventually becoming parents themselves, watching Football, scouts, screaming at our youths when they do these peaceful activities…. horray for Blizzard…..

    • wtdevflnt said

      Excellent comment, I may just blog this ok?

      • gowron said

        It’s your blog and it’s a democratic place (I’m assuming you made it back home, with all your marbles intact).

    • Gowron,

      You said, “This is how Asian youths over here in Can-merica live. Scarfing pizza, drinking and partying in suburbia, looking at T and A, then eventually becoming parents themselves, watching Football, scouts, screaming at our youths when they do these peaceful activities…. horray for Blizzard…..”

      Are you speaking from your personal experience as a Can-merica Asian because what you describe doesn’t fit the average for Asian-Americans?

      Statistics from reputable sources show a different picture for the average Asian-American. Compared to all other racial/ethnic groups in the US:

      1. Asian-Americans have the lowest divorce rate and also have the highest ratio of marriages.
      2. Asian-Americans graduate with the highest rates from high school then college earning more valuable degrees that lead to higher annual earnings compared to Caucasians, which are number two for average annual earnings.
      3. Asian-American teenage girls have the lowest incidence of teen pregnancy.
      4. Asian-Americans have the lowest ratio of unemployed workers.
      5. Asian-Americans have the lowest incidence of drug and alcohol abuse.
      6. Asian-American teens have one of the lowest suicide rates while Native Americans have the highest and second place at almost twice the Asian-American teen suicide rate, goes to Caucasians.
      7. High school standardized test scores when broken down by racial/ethnic groupings shows that Asian-American students have the highest average score and Caucasians come in second, African-Americans third and Latinos fourth.
      8. Asians have the lowest incidence of serious mental illness while Caucasians have the highest rate.
      9. Asian-American teens have the lowest percentage of street gang members.
      10. There are about 14 million Asian-Americans and the largest segment are Chinese at about 3.5 million.

      It is obvious that you may not fit the average Asian-American and your antidotal example, which is your opinion, is an exception to what statistics show us.

      • Lionel t-bone said

        Dude do you think its a little presumptuous to negate the experiences of someone else? You seem to be an anachronism, a dinosaur fighting for relevance in a time that has passed you by.
        For instance, while most people on here seem to quote from the heart you regurgitate stats , but seem to have little to no self derived content. As a matter of fact your long winded speeches remind me of a chinadaily troll who posts under Archie Bunker or Archie Bunker inc. I even think you have stolen a few of his lines.
        In the spirit of the internet, try to come up with your own stuff and you will get more mileage.

      • To Lionel T-Bone “Dude”

        Facts trump opinions based on a personal experience except for people that do not know the difference. An opinion is a theory–not a truth but documented facts are truth. An experience by one person is limited to his perception and that one person cannot know what 1.3 billion people are doing with their lives.

        For example: China is often criticized for the number of deaths during Mao’s Great Leap Forward, which was also called “The Great Chinese Famine”. This criticism usually sounds as if someone lined up those people and executed them with bullets or in gas chambers like the Nazi’s did to the Jews in World War II.

        However, those people in China starved because there wasn’t enough food.

        Somewhere between 15 to 45 million died in that famine. Yes, poor government decisions played a role in that famine but China has had more than 1,800 major famines in the last 2,000 years and since 1810, there have been five major famines that cost 88 million lives due to starvation. The bad decisions that contributed to one major famine in China in the 1950s was a mistake–a blunder–stupidity. No one in China’s government set out to kill those people on purpose.

        However, America has never had a famine. Most Americans have no idea what it is like to have no food to eat. Even people that live in povertyin America usually can find soup kitchens that feed the poor for free.

        America grows food on more than 40% of its land area. China can only grow food on about 15% of its land area to feed more than four times the people.

        China is not alone when it comes to people starving to death due to famines. Check out how many have died in India due to famines. You can see the list of world famines here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

      • Lionel t-bone said

        Mr. Wiki wtf is up? Have you had your serotonin checked? My point was and still is that it’s presumptuous of you to negate the experience of someone. What this had to do with a rant about crappy Chinese communists and how they have starved or killed their own people, is beyond me.
        Try to focus Lloyd. “To negate the experiences of another is presumptuous” full stop. And come clean, are you Archie Bunker inc?

      • Lionel T-Bone,

        Do you have attention deficit disorder and/or dyslexia or does your “average” American short attention span often cause you to skim what someone writes so you get it wrong? Your ability to get meaning from context and facts appears to be empty.

        In fact, I never said that ” (all) Asians do not party, never enjoy T and A and never eat pizza”. I meant that most Asian-Americans probably do not live this sort of lifestyle, and I supported that opinion with those facts.

        The evidence I provided would indicate that many Asian youths do not party, drink and eat pizza as the average American youth does on a weekly and often daily basis. That is what the evidence indicates—that the lifestyle of the average Asian-American youth does not match the lifestyle of the average American Caucasian, Black and Latino youth.

        What is it about the word “average” that you do not understand? Average does not mean everyone. What it means is the largest segment of a population such as Asian-Americans, which also means that a “minority” (which means smaller numbers) of Asian-Americans would live the pizza, party, drinking, and plenty of T and A lifestyle.

        I see you enjoy and impress yourself with your insults as to my age. If you live long enough, you will be that old one day as I was once young, and if you live the party life of drinking (and possibly drugs), chasing lots of T and A and scarfing tons of pizza, your old age will be one cursed with disease, pain and medication to control the diseases.

        You see, the overwhelming evidence has proven the lifestyle you “may” support and enjoy leads to obesity, an earlier death and/or a long infirm old age riddled with diseases that requires a good medical program to deal with the diabetes, heart disease and/or cancer and a host of other lifestyle diseases caused by the average American diet of fast food, pizza, beer, wine and sodas (sugar water). This isn’t even an opinion anymore. It’s a fact.

        I am proud to say that I don’t have any lifestyle diseases and do not have to take any medications to control them, which 80% of the people my age have to do just to keep the heart beating to breathe another day. By the time old age arrives, if you survive that long, your party life will be over and T and A will be a forgotten memory and old age will arrive much sooner.

        You see, we each have two ages. One is our age in years (chronological) and the other is our biological age (our health). This means a person can be 40 with the body and health of an 80-year-old due to the lifestyle he or she lived while young, while an 80 year old can have the health of what that 40 year old should have had if he or she had lived a healthy lifestyle while young.

        Did you know that 50% of men that live the average American lifestyle suffer from erectile dysfunction by the age of 50 because their arteries are so clogged the heart can’t pump the blood so that organ can function?

      • Lloyd Please shut up said

        Settle down Rambo, we really don’t care about your ‘junk’ and its ability or lack of rising to the occasion. But I’ve gotta comment on this .. you said
        “However, those people in China starved because there wasn’t enough food.”
        uh….. isn’t this a non sequitor? Isn’t this the definition of a famine?
        In addition, in one of your long wiki like replies you talked about wanting to leave your ‘footprints’. Please make sure you clean the dog shit off your shoes before you do so, for the little Laotian villager who shares your hut may enjoy your wit, but as for the rest of us, we can think for ourselves. Your righteous indignation and feeling that you have to ‘set the record straight’ (my words) should be saved for the classroom, but does not play well with educated folk…..
        And let me guess, your response will be about you and your member and your daily routine which aside from bashing your homeland includes surfing the net and picking fights all in the name of assisting the ‘motherland’ China. Soooo borrringggg Mr. Lofthose

    • observer said

      This is an excellent piece of writing. You have quite a bit of knowledge on the subject, well done.

      • Lionel T-Bone, You don’t get it.

        Gowron said, “This is how Asian youths over here in Can-merica live. Scarfing pizza, drinking and partying in suburbia, looking at T and A…”

        Gowron should have said, “According to my personal experience, this is how some Asian youths…”

        Gowron’s opinion (based on his or her personal experience) is stated as a fact that “all” Asian youths do this in America when we could find youths of all ethnic groups with lifestyles like this but not all of them.

        If we dig for facts, which I have already done and written about on one of my Blogs with links to the sources, we would soon discover enough information about ethnic groups to provide proof that “on average” Asian-American youths would do less of this than Caucasians, Blacks or Latinos.

        I’m not negating Gowron’s experience because that is probably what he or she has witnessed in his personal circle of friends and acquaintances but it does not hold true for everyone. What I’m doing is attempting to prove that his generalized statement is wrong, which means his opinion is wrong that “This is how Asian youths over here in Can-merica live. Scarfing pizza, drinking and partying in suburbia, looking at T and A…”

        Facts in the form of statistics and studies from reputable sources show us that Asian-American youths have the lowest suicide rate, lowest incidence of alcoholism, lowest rate of drug use, lowest STD rates, lowest rate of teen pregnancies and the highest graduation rates (with the highest “on average” GPAs and standardized test scores) from high school and college.

        As adults, Asian-Americans have one of the lowest rates of serious mental illness, the lowest unemployment rate compared to all other ethnic groups, the highest per capital earnings (on average) and the highest rates of marriage (that do not end in divorce) when compared to other ethnic groups.

        When compared to other ethnic groups, Asian-Americans graduate in higher rates from universities than all of the other ethnic groups and earn degrees that lead to better paying, more stable jobs.

        As a group, Asian-American youths do not achieve these numbers” Scarfing pizza, drinking and partying in suburbia, looking at T and A…” Some do, but most don’t.

        What I’m doing is setting the record straight so people that read Gowron’s personal opinion get another perspective supported with facts instead of one person’s personal opinion based on his or her limited experience in the world that Asian youths live such lifestyles in America.

      • Lionel T-Bone said

        Ok Dad, thanks for the lecture, can I get my allowance now? sheesh. Ok let me distill your manuscript down to what is reasonable and translate it to human.
        You are saying that Gowron is wrong and Asians do not party T and A and pizza due to the fact that they dont kill themselves and get divorced etc. Is this correct?
        So first off I would like to say…..dude no offense to your age, but things may have changed now. Universities are crawling with T and A and things a lot worse than pizza and its not just the white skinned guys partaking in it…
        While it sounds nice to write all of the wonderful things you have to say about Asians, it does not mean that at the end of the night they aint got a fat ol spliff dangling from their lips and a head full of X just waiting to hit that new little love button from Harbin.
        The thing is Mr B, that a lot of us have studied in the USA and China so we probably have a different point of you, call it more up to date. As for me, I spent a bit there and I can tell you , Archie, that China has some homely women with banging hot legs, who don’t know how to say know. I hope you can feel me on that one and keep up the good work, I am sure the ethertubes need a few more gigs of useless numbers.

  22. Awesome said

    Dude!! Excellent Comment! You rock!!!

  23. […] Challenge of Developing China In a virtual conversation with several others at Understanding China, One Blog at a Time, hosted by an anonymous American working in China, an incident at a McDonalds in China of a baby […]

  24. bill said


  25. JD said

    I am an attorney and your post about the lies we tell in China caught my eye. I commented there so I will not rehash it at this point. Suffice it to say that although this blog may seem cynical, it mirrors my experience in doing business in China. My firm recently avoided a potential disaster in terms of working with a Chinese company.
    There are two things that you’ve gotten right about China. 1- the place is chaotic and what one experiences there is beyond belief. For instance in our latest meeting, one of the partners from a Chinese law firm coughed up and expectorated phlegm at regular intervals. In addition to this, it appeared to us that our Chinese counterparts considered work nothing more than something to pass the time until we could drink and sing at a KTV bar. Their level of understanding of Chinese law was miserable to say the least. 2- The refreshing nature of your lack of political correctness gives this site ‘bite’. This allows for the ‘real’ feeling or ability that one has to understand the reality of doing business in modern day China. Eschewing flowery language you seem to have a handle on telling it like it is and shooting from the hip.
    Good job.

  26. AJK said

    How can I buy ad space on your blog. Contact my email please.

  27. Shopping said


  28. […] other Blog is called Understanding China, One Blog at a Time (should be “One Post” at a […]

  29. Tron HonoH vokoyo said

    Situated in the East China Sea, due east of Fujian province and northeast of Taiwan, the Diaoyu Islands are the farthest eastern islands of China. They are about 190 nautical miles from the Dongshan Island of Fujian province, 90 nautical miles to the northeast of Keelung city of Taiwan, and 78 nautical miles from the Yunaguni Island of the Ryukyu Islands. The Diaoyu Islands refer to a group of islands that include the main one, Diaoyu Island, and some smaller islands and reefs like Huangwei Island, Chiwei Island, Beixiao Island, Nanxiao Island and three other islets. They are scattered in a sea area at 123 degrees 20 minutes ~ 124 degrees 45 minutes east longitude and 25 degrees 44 minutes ~ 26 degrees north latitude, covering a total land area of 6.5 square kilometers. The surrounding waters of the islands have rich fishing resources and have long been an important fishing ground for people in Fujian and Taiwan of China since ancient times. The well-known Emery Report pointed to the existence of abundant oil and natural gas resources on the continental shelf of the East China Sea.

    (1) The Diaoyu Islands are an inalienable part of China’s territory.

    China was the first country that discovered and explored the Diaoyu Islands and obtained sovereignty by occupation. Since ancient times, the Chinese have fished, collected medicinal herbs and sought shelters on these islands and in their surrounding waters. No later than the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), the islands had been discovered, explored and named by the Chinese. Ancient Chinese books, such as the Book on Voyage Routes and the Voyage with a Tail Wind, kept a complete record of the navigation routes used by Chinese fishermen in this sea area. Due to the natural conditions at sea and the possession of technology such as ship-building at that time, only the Chinese military and civilians could reach the islands during the monsoon season. They navigated through the islands and sought haven there in stormy weather. They carried out economic activities such as fishing, collecting herbs and picking fruits. For about five centuries until 1895, China had never been interfered in its exercise of these rights.

    One cannot speak of the Diaoyu Islands without mentioning Ryukyu Kingdom. Ryukyu Kingdom was a vassal state of the Ming and Qing dynasties to which it paid tributes, while the latter sent envoys to grant honorific titles to the kings in Ryukyu in recognition of their rule. The Diaoyu Islands were on the navigation route from China’s mainland to Ryukyu Kingdom. Chinese officials on mission to Ryukyu all referred to these islands as their navigation marks. They put down in the official documents such as the Record of the Mission to Ryukyu with detailed descriptions of their voyages through the Diaoyu Island, Huangwei Island and Chiwei Island and repeatedly confirmed the boundary between China and Ryukyu. Historical facts tell us that the Diaoyu Islands do not fall into the domain of Ryukyu. China’s historical records and official documents all show that it was the Chinese people who first discovered, developed and utilized the Diaoyu Islands. According to the international law of that time, discovery means occupation and occupation means obtainment of territorial sovereignty. Therefore, China obtained sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands by occupation.

    The Chinese government exercised effective rule and administration, and strengthened its sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands. Successive Chinese governments all included the Diaoyu Islands into the confines of China’s territory and exercised sovereignty and effective rule by taking measures to develop, utilize and administer the islands. In 1171, General Wang Dayou guarding Fujian established military camps on Penghu Islands and sent officers to station in the islands. Taiwan and its affiliated islands including the Diaoyu Islands were under the military command of Penghu and, in terms of administration, they were under Jinjiang of Quanzhou, Fujian province. Both the Ming and Qing dynasties incorporated the Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islands into their territory and designated them as part of the maritime defense areas. The Book on Managing the Sea (1562, Ming Dynasty) and Imperial Map of Chinese and Foreign Lands (1863, Qing Dynasty) made clear descriptions about the area. Historical facts show that the Chinese government has administered the Diaoyu Islands in various ways and effectively exercised and strengthened its sovereignty over the Islands.

    (2) Japan’s arguments about its claim of sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands are untenable.

    There are mainly two legal arguments that Japan has evoked to justify its occupation of the Diaoyu Islands: First, occupation of so-called terra nullius, second, acquisition by prescription (prescriptio acquisitive). Both arguments are untenable.

    By international law, the object of occupation shall be limited to terra nullius. Terra nullius refers to land which has never been subject to the sovereignty of any state or over which any prior sovereign state has expressly or implicitly relinquished sovereignty. The fact is that Diaoyu Island and its affiliated islands have been subject to the sovereignty of the Chinese government as its sea defense area since the Ming Dynasty. They are an inalienable part of China’s territory. Due to the inhospitable natural environment, these islands are not permanently inhabited and fishermen only take up abode on these islands for seasonal activities. But having no permanent residents does not make these islands terra nullius. The Diaoyu Islands are not terra nullius. They are China’s territory. The Japanese government and society are well aware of this fact. The official archives of the Japanese government and documents and correspondence of Japanese officials all record and give evidence to this. For example, in the letter to Home Minister Aritomo Yamagata, then Japanese Foreign Minister Kaoru Inoue wrote in explicit terms that these islands had already been given Chinese names by the Qing government and that the Japanese government had been admonished by the Qing government for coveting these islands. Since the Diaoyu Islands are not terra nullius, Japan’s so-called occupation is non-existent. Ex injuria jus non oritur (A legal right or entitlement cannot arise from an unlawful act or omission) is a fundamental principle of international law. Japan’s so-called occupation is mala fide, illegal and unjustifiable; it therefore does not have the legal effect as what may arise from occupation recognized by international law.

    The other argument that Japan presents is “long and continuous effective administration”, that is, to obtain sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands based on acquisition by prescription (prescriptio acquisitive).

    “Acquisition by prescription” of territory has been all along an extremely disputable issue in international law. Those against it totally deny the legitimacy of prescription as a way to obtain territory. They are of the view that this is “merely a legal argument serving expansionist countries for occupying others’ territories”. Those for it see prescription as a way to obtain territory, it is defined as “the acquisition of sovereignty over a territory through continuous and undisturbed exercise of sovereignty over it, and during such a period as is necessary to create under the influence of historical development the general conviction that the present condition of things is in conformity with international order.” International judicial practice has never clearly confirmed the status of “prescription” as an independent way to acquire territory. As for the exact time span of the “period as is necessary”, international law has no final verdict to make it 50 years or 100 years.

    If we put aside the legitimacy of “acquisition by prescription” and merely examine the key factors, it is clear that both the Chinese central government and the Taiwan local authority have been firm, explicit and consistent on issues concerning China’s sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands and in opposing Japan’s attempt to steal them. They have launched protests, especially diplomatic protests, against official and government-supported civilian activities, including setting up a lighthouse on the Diaoyu Island by Japanese right-wingers, “nationalizing” the lighthouse by the Japanese government, paying the “rent” for land on the Diaoyu Islands to those so-called non-governmental owners, and submitting a chart specifying the so-called baselines of the territorial sea of the Diaoyu Islands to the United Nations by the Japanese government. Japan can never gain legitimate rights over the Diaoyu Islands through occupation no matter how long it may last.

    (3) Agreements between Japan and the United States cannot grant Japan sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands.

    In the wake of World War II, the Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclamation, the outcome of the Anti-fascist victory clearly defined the territory of Japan. According to the Cairo Declaration issued by China, the US and the UK in December 1943, their purpose is that “Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of World War I in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese” shall be restored to China. “Japan will also be expelled from all other territories which she has taken by violence and greed”.

    The Potsdam Proclamation issued in 1945 reaffirmed that “the terms of the Cairo Declaration shall be carried out and Japanese sovereignty shall be limited to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and such minor islands as we determine”. On Jan 29, 1946, the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers Instruction No 667 explicitly stipulated the range of the Japanese territory, which included the four major islands of Japan (Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku) and the approximately 1,000 smaller adjacent islands, including the Tsushima Islands and the Ryukyu Islands north of 30 degrees north latitude. The delimitation of the Japanese territory by the Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclamation is clear-cut. The Diaoyu Islands are not included in the Japanese territory in any way.

    On Sept 8, 1951, Japan and the US concluded the San Francisco Peace Treaty in the absence of China and the Soviet Union, two victorious countries in the war against Japan, putting Nansei Shoto south of 29 degrees north latitude (including the Ryukyu Islands and the Daito Islands) under the US trusteeship. The Diaoyu Islands were not mentioned in the treaty, nor by the Japanese government’s later explanations thereof. On Dec 25, 1953, the United States Civil Administration of the Ryukyu Islands issued the Civil Administration Proclamation No 27 on the geographical boundaries of the Ryukyu Islands and defined the areas administered by the US government and the Ryukyu Civil Administration as the islands, islets, atolls, rocks and territorial waters along 24 degrees north latitude and 122 degrees east longitude. This proclamation included the Diaoyu Islands, China’s territory, into their areas of administration. These islands were also included in the areas to be returned to Japan under the Japan-US Okinawa Reversion Agreement signed on June 17, 1971. The Japanese government takes the above-mentioned agreement as the legal ground for its claim of territorial sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands.

    On Dec 30, 1971, the Chinese Foreign Ministry pointed out in its statement that “the incorporation by the United States and Japan of China’s Diaoyu and other islands into the area of reversion under the Okinawa Reversion Agreement is totally illegal. It does not in any way change the territorial sovereignty of the People’s Republic of China over the Diaoyu and other islands”. The US government also stated that returning the administrative authority over these islands gained from Japan to Japan does not in any way undermine relevant sovereign claim. The United States cannot increase the legal right Japan had prior to its handover of the administrative authority over these islands to China, nor can it undermine the right of other claimants because of the return of the administrative authority to Japan. All the conflicting claims over these islands are issues that should be resolved by the parties concerned among themselves. On Sept 11, 1996, US State Department spokesperson Nicholas Burns said further that the US neither recognizes nor supports any country’s sovereign claim over the Diaoyu Islands.

    On Sept 1951, the Chinese government issued a statement regarding the San Francisco Peace Treaty signed by the US and Japan without the involvement of the Chinese people and the lawful government of China. It pointed out the illegal nature of the treaty. The “trusteeship” and “reversion” deriving from the treaty included the Diaoyu Islands, thus violating China’s territorial sovereignty and becoming the source of the territorial dispute between China and Japan. The San Francisco Peace Treaty and other relevant documents have no right to cover or determine the ownership of the Chinese territory, and cannot have any legal judgment that extends the sovereignty of Diaoyu Islands to Japan.

    The Diaoyu Islands are an inalienable part of China’s territory. The so-called administrative authority the US “got from” and “returned to” Japan is unjustified. Japan’s claim over the sovereignty of the Diaoyu Islands on that basis has no legal ground in international law.


    Japan has never given up its attempt to gain sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands. It first destroyed China’s markings on the islands, then renamed the islands, and built a heliport and other facilities. In recent years, Japan went even further. It abetted what it called “civilian actions” to create a fait accompli of “actual control” of the Diaoyu Islands, followed by government renting and “takeover” actions. All this aim to pave the legal grounds for its occupation of the Diaoyu Islands and gradually win recognition from the international community. However, Japan’s claim to sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands and its encroachment are illegal in the first place. Therefore, its carefully designed “government actions” have no legal ground and do not constitute the execution of state power. They never had, and will never have, any legal effect.

    Article II of the Law of the People’s Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone promulgated in 1992 makes clear that the Diaoyu Islands and other islands are Chinese territory, and reaffirms the legality of China’s ownership of them. In 2009, a Chinese marine surveillance and law enforcement ship was sent to the Diaoyu Islands in repudiation of Japan’s “acquisition by prescription”. This was also a concrete action of China’s exercise of sovereignty over the Diaoyu Islands.

  30. Jeff P said

    To the guy with the comment on closed minds. I find it interesting that you would post a comment entitled ‘closed minds’. I truly hope this comment was made after a bit of introspection on your part.
    The reason I say this is that based upon your numerous comments in which you argue ad nauseum, that you may have noticed how you, at times tend to try to force others into believing as you do. For instance, by my reckoning, you have argued or attempted to prove your point, veiled in an attempt at pointing out your knowledge of China’s history a few of your diatribes. In one of your last exchanges, you accused another of having to ‘get in the last word’ , when it appeared that you may have been attempting to do the same. And then you argue with people who are giving their opinions. The guy Gowron is probably quite a bit younger than you are and thus has a different perspective from what he has lived.
    One of the great things about blogs is the free exchange of ideas and yours are as valuable, not more so than anyone else’s. To some, however, it may appear that you are being overly aggressive. I really respect everyone’s opinion even if I do not agree with them. For a man who writes a comment such as yours, I hope you have thought through your actions as well.

    • Jeff P,

      You said, “the great thing about blogs is the free exchange of ideas….”

      The other side of that is having to read the biased opinions of others that don’t know what they are talking about and who are often wrong. Just because someone has an opinion or an idea and expresses it on a Blog does not make them right or worth listening to.

      What is truth to one person, does not mean that truth is correct and facts often prove many opinions wrong, which is why I use facts to support my opinions. Instead of just sharing my opinions, I use facts to back them up but most people do not do that.

      Many times when we have an “open mind” and are given the facts, those facts may change opinions and flawed perceptions of the world.

      However, “closed minds” that do not want to read the facts that might prove an individual’s flawed and/or biased opinions are wrong often resent anyone that disagrees with them and proves them wrong.

      In another forum, someone stated the opinion that Chinese have the highest suicide rate in the world so I researched that opinion to see if it was true.

      Over the years, I’ve heard that opinion often and I thought it might be true. Then I checked reliable sources and found it was the opposite of the truth especially among Asian-Americans, an ethnic group with the lowest suicide rate while Caucasians had the highest—almost twice that of Asian-Americans.

      Then on another forum, I read an opinion that stated that China had a drug and gambling problem that revealed the true nature of the Chinese. I researched that and found information from reliable sources that revealed that the drug and gambling problems in America are much higher with a HUGE difference between the two countries.

      On another forum, someone mentioned that corruption in China was “breathtaking” when he read a piece about 16 to 18 thousand Chinese that worked in government owned industries stealing about 125 billion dollars over a period of 15 years and then fleeing China mostly to America with the loot they took.

      I did more research and discovered that the same sort of corruption (called white-collar crime in America) in the US is estimated to be as high as $600 billion annually, which equals $9 trillion in theft over a fifteen-year period. If this sort of crime is “breathtaking” in China, what do we call it in America?

      The problem with people throwing opinions around without checking to see if the opinions are correct is the same as spreading rumors that are lies until many people believe they are the truth.

      Of course, closed and biased minds probably do not want to know the facts since they prefer to share their false beliefs in the “free forum” that the Internet offers without any filters to shut them off when they are wrong.

      One fact that I have learned in the last few years reading opinions on the Internet is that any fool can say anything on the Internet without providing any evidence or facts that what he or she believes is the truth.

      All it takes is a few minutes to spout an opinion on the Internet and launch it to a global audience. However, it sometimes takes hours to find out if those opinions are valid and most people will not take the time so those lies stand as truths to many misguided people that may then make decisions based on those false opinions without checking the facts.

  31. Jeff P said

    You said, “The other side of that is having to read the biased opinions of others that don’t know what they are talking about and who are often wrong. ”
    Who is making you read blogs or news items that you do not wish to read? Why is it you have to read anything? You may have a site, but I surely will not grace its 1’s and 0’s with my presence, so problem solved.
    Concerning your research expertise. Ok so all of these major corporations are doing all of this research, but you went out and bested them, discovered things they dont know? Maybe I’m too closed minded to get my head around that one. The fact is, at least in my humble opinion, of all the commentors I’ve read on this blog , you do not seem the most open minded.

    • Jeff P,

      By open minded, it is obvious that you mean, “Accept this opinion without doubt”. Most of the data I mentioned came from sources such as the US census or organizations like the CDC—not major corporations, which often slant their claims by leaving out many facts if those facts might hurt profits.

      As for reading blogs that I do not wish to read, one has to read one first to decide not to return and read again. However, once I read someone that obviously doesn’t know what he or she is taking about, it is hard to resist the urge to leave footprints behind that offer another side to an obviously wrong or flawed opinion by another lazy person with a short attention span that doesn’t want to spend the time it takes to check out the facts.

      I also leave comments to biased and flawed opinions knowing the odds are that the author of that misinformation will never agree with what I say no matter what facts and evidence I use to counter his or her claims.

      The reason I do that is so the next reader will have two sides to consider instead of one that may be wrong.

      I’m sure, you would prefer that no one ever disagrees with you and for sure doesn’t do it with facts that are hard to argue with.

      And yes, I know that my responses are often long winded compared to a short but often wrong and biased opinion that doesn’t hold water once the facts are known. The reason for that is that it is difficult to prove a short but often flawed opinion wrong with a short answer.

      There is a big difference between an opinion without facts and an opinion with facts and all opinions supported by facts are not equal since the source of the facts must be called into question.

      Maybe I’m a fact checker because that’s how I was trained when I was earning my BA in journalism.

  32. Jeff P said

    Lloyd, this comment sums you up very well, you said, ” that obviously doesn’t know what he or she is taking about, it is hard to resist the urge to leave footprints behind that offer another side to an obviously wrong or flawed opinion by another lazy person” I am sorry Lloyd, but I have never heard of you. is there something I am missing that would make you the vicar of the truth about all things China? Do you hold some special powers other than your coveted BA in journalism that allows your spidey sense of ‘the truth’ to come out?
    Ok lets be frank. I have seen your site and while it has good information and well intentioned it comes off as preachy and pedestrian. By issuing the statement above, you have shown your Quixotic desire to rid the web of those beliefs which seem to be inconsistent with your own.
    While doing my masters I was taught to think, possibly your need to ‘set the record straight’ is a generational thing as my folks would say the same thing. The product of the information age are pretty adept at seeking out both sides of the story, your help is not needed.
    What you can learn from this site:
    I seem to recall a story or two about haircuts. The images were of lounging lynxes for male workers, and the sound of banging pots and pans from ADD kids equating to music from the Chinese opera.I can remember these as they are extremely entertaining and wonderful imagery. Do I believe them, no, but was it fun to read yes. Thus the person who penned that was skillful in telling a story about an experience, it was fun. I truly doubt that any of the readers of this blog believe that if they go to a hairdresser in China that men are draping themselves from sofas, waiting to service them, but the creativity in this notion is exceptional for free press.
    Based upon the comments and content I have seen here , versus your site, I would bet that the typical reader here tends to be younger, well educated, well traveled and relatively well heeled. I would think those going to your site tend to be more fearful and likely to accept what is thrown at them at face value.
    What you can learn is to relax, you look like the typical Chinese person who cannot handle a bad word uttered about China.
    And believe me, Lloyd, your little footprints are wholly unnecessary, after all, if we want hard core history lessons, we will not find them from the rantings of another web troll.
    Long live free press and keep up the good work all of those who choose to blog and comment!!!

    • “you look like the typical Chinese person who cannot handle a bad word uttered about China”

      I’m an American citizen, a Caucasian who served in the US Marines, fought in Vietnam, taught in the public schools (surrounded by gang infested barrios with weekly shootings and killings out there) for thirty years and like you, I am taking advantage of my Constitutionally guaranteed right to freedom of expression and I disagree with you.

      It is regrettable that you seem to feel I have no right to express my disagreement without your attempt to insult me. It is obvious that you have no idea how to communicate ideas and support opinions except to say things like “we will not find them from the rantings of another web troll”.

      I learned long ago that “it takes one to know one” and it appears that you ‘may’ know more about being a ‘web troll’ than most of the people on the Internet, but I cannot accuse you of being a web troll since I’m not one.

      I also know enough about China to recognize when someone doesn’t know much of anything about that country and why it is the way it is. China is not America or any other country. India is not America or any other country. In fact, there isn’t another country that is exactly like America.

      Anyone that expects another country to be a mirror image of America with all that America has lives in a bubble.

      • Solution said

        It’s obvious you two are at an impasse which leaves only one alternative- the octagon. Think of it, two men enter one man leaves, and Gowron can be the ref. The popcorn sales alone will gross thousands.
        In this corner at a spry 168 pounds is Lloyd, the ageless marine wonder. His challenge is to avenge the disparaging remarks of relative newcomer Jeff ‘Powerhouse’ P.
        Will the aging marine corner the savvy newcomer and work his ground and pound magic a la the caves of Cambodia, or will the younger more technical Jeff P wear his older opponent down with massive shots to the ribcage, leaving him in a winded heap?
        Come on guys, I ‘m throwing in a Franklin on this one

      • Funny. I laughed. However, I weigh in at between 180 and 185 pounds with little to no fat. I have a daily exercise routine that easily lasts one hour thirty minutes that includes weight lifting and I hike in the wilderness on weekends several hours with a few hundred feet of elevation gain that’s good enough to make the heart pound like a trip hammer. I have been doing this for decades and usually beat people to the top half my age. Once, on a trail high in the San Gabriel Mountains, I came face to face with a black bear that I’m fortunate decided to leave the trail and ran up the side of the mountain away from us.

        Two of my hiking partners died (one from cancer that started in a kidney and spread from there and the other from leukemia–they wouldn’t listen to me about their average American diet and how dangerous it was to their health–and both were several years younger) so I haven’t lugged the sixty pound backpack into the Sierras for several years but I believe I’m still in good enough shape to climb into the Sierras and tackle a fourteen mile hike with that sixty pounds on my back in one day with a 5,000 foot elevation gain as I have done in the past. This doesn’t count my 40 minutes walks during the week where I climb one hill that has an elevation gain of at least 125 feet. That’s usually the first thing I do after getting up before I start the indoor exercise routine of an hour and a half. Going up that hill at 6 AM in the morning gets the blood pumping.

        Besides a variety of firearms, I prefer the silence of knives. I still have the K-Bar I carried and used in Vietnam among a variety of other edge weapons I have collected over the years, and in Vietnam, I was good at hitting a target throwing knives–small ones designed for throwing. However, my staff sergeant caught me using a tent post as my target and told me that post had been in the Marines for decades and I had to stop so I wouldn’t damage it. I seldom missed that post from at least twenty feet but I may be out of practice. It’s been awhile since I threw a knife.

        Therefore, it is quite possible for even old farts like me stay in shape by eating right and not becoming a couch potato. Since most of my weigh is muscle and bone, I’m lean and look like I might weight in at 160, which is what most people guess when asked.

        Every year at my physical, the doctor says I’m healthier than a 17 year old. Considering the health of 17 year- old kids today, that worries me.

        I also do not believe in a fair fight. The Marines didn’t teach me to fight. They taught me to destroy me enemey any way possible. The best way is to do it and no one even knows you were there.

      • In on action said

        I got a fifty spot says that gunney (Lloyd) kicks his ass. But gunney please leave the girka and throwing stars at the OC, ok?

  33. Sorry! It would have been nice to get out of the Marines as a gunnery sergeant but I was only an E-4, a corporal when I left.

    However, I do have a Gurka knife but the blade is dull—needs sharpening. No throwing stars. Broke too many bones in hand-to-hand combat and in karate classes to get that far. A full-sized Bowie knife is my favorite and the sharpest. Ever see the Bodyguard movie where Costner throws the scarf into the air and then it floats down to the blade where it is split in two.

  34. Cause of Arthritis…

    […]while the sites we link to below are completely unrelated to ours, we think they are worth a read, so have a look[…]…

  35. gowron said

    You showed us a video of a Canadian on a Chinese train. Now here is a Chinese on a Canadian train enjoy.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy1XYa725bo

  36. gowron said

    No Communism No New China…. this is the New China?!?!!?! Version 2

    We’ll consider that 1989=present will be the “New China”, or Deng Xiaopeng, a Goblin like Chairman…. declared that China was to move in a fundementally different direction, as he normalized discussions with Nixon, and began the limted economic reforms, with planned economies (yeah for Orcish ghettos, ie slums of shit pits).. such as building Szchenchen, border with Hong Kong. (a Mexi-cali, Cali-excio like border crossing). From this point 10 years after Deng secured his position after political infighting led by Mao’s successors after the death of Mao in 1979 (Mao’s lunacy is well know and expected).New China was on the vanguard of the average Chineses’ mind.

    Note: judging from the sturctural engineering found in China it’s safe to presume (unless there’s is details to prove subjective that the State is at fault for “accidents”, that the Reds are at fault, due to quick substandard construction, or corruption and graft (see, “Tofu” Engineering), if shoddy workman ship is implied it will be used, if it’s proven it’ll defiantly be used.

    In addition, bombings and acts of terrorism are inspired acts of violence (although condemned the root cause was indeed the subhuman conditions caused by the CCP).

    sketchy and very unscientific method of data finding. BUT the statistics are NOT made up. Or at least I hope they’re not. Because of the ambiguous unscholastic and unempirical nature of Internet data mining, I’ll try to keep the memorial as honestly sanitized as possible, in regards to factor: As close to the party as possible (drug dealers, and other violent felons, won’t be recorded, UNLESS there is the remotly connected to the Underworld (in this context China), with many CCP members are allegedly members of. Some use the Wikipedia stats, and we all know how sketcky that is. For example, unless the crimes are a violent lash out at society, or by a person in charge (ie a teacher beating up a bunch of kids (in this case most likely a party member as s\he’s an offical employee), or say a party member runs over a person multiple times,

    Data from news outlets (perferably non tabloid ones, will be used, not Epoch news, and other Falun Dafa, Free Tibet, or democracy now kind of websites).

    *** Note please take these statistics with a grain of salt*** Unless totally farfetched, the stastic will be implemented (for instance, a citizen going nuts with a knife is free will, however the society that inspired such fustrations, and acts of uprising terrorism (bombings), can hardly be held unaccountable. Take Japan or Korea with their Mega corps, very competitive, and high suicide society… you don’t see as much outbreaks of violence do you?). Also harden criminals are added in Amesty international’s stats for executions. Need I remind that these gangster are hardened criminal scum. Neverless, an execution is still an execution. (Canada has violent felons, as does England, yet they dont’ have the death penalty), life is life. And Jesus forgives the most evilest of villians.

    Also some figures I added links, or references, but I provided enough information in most of the statistics to do a double cross reference with the year place, and accident. usually).

    Anyways, let’s examin the DEATHS from this period of New China. With the omnious Tienanmen Square massacre. Or as the Reds call it the July “incident”.Also acts of God, like Floods, UNLESS serious casulties were muredered from willful negligence, through economic policy, graft corruption etc . Also with unclear statistics. I will mark (est), or with a commentary. An example of unclear stats, would be. Smoking (because although the Reds don’t have a gun to your head (lol) and force you to smoke, their state run near monopoly doesn’t give them much incentive to enforce health standards).

    Example so an so source says (x number of people died that year of coal accidents, while not stating how many from negligence (“sometimes” privateers not working with Government authority)In big companies cases, it’s known that companies are often funded by the Reds through state own production as per the tenents of Communism). (ie The 2008 earthquakes Will only mention 5600+ children).
    1989 “New China”…

    Miscelanious deaths during this period
    -(Smoking deaths continous).
    673,000 (2005);
    600,000 (1989);

    -(second hand smoke, non smokers).
    42,000 women (2002),

    *Although smoking is an individual choice, the Chinese government doesn’t enforce smoking laws, also it once considered legislation for government employees to smoke a QUOTA of provincial smokes to boost up revenue through taxes, also keep in mind the main seller despite private enterprise IS THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT, who on the other hand is attempting to control this habit. Also Chinese tobbaco is 3 times more deadly than the strong Canadian ones.If the reds who CONTROL this product really wants to stop, surly they wouldn’t add MORE toxins in right?

    (more toxic smokes )(http://www.peopleforum.cn/redirect.php?)fid=11&tid=39961&goto=nextoldset


    -68,000 AIDS, and presumably Hepitatus and other Blood borne STDS, (tainted blood of the 1990s, practice still rises), Scores more infected. http://post.jagran.com/aids-deaths-on-rise-in-china-crosses68000-13
    ( A GOVERNMENTAL fuck up, however currently most “blood Pimps” and selling is illegal!, and the blood donations are “safer” and secure)

    -1,148,000 (over a 4 year period, from 1995- 1999,)suicides,http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5322a6.html)

    -360,000 Tuberculosis in 1990

    -390,000 Infected from needles in 2004, all over rural China. (It’ is not uncommon for the IV clinics to have people smoking in the sick bays also). Keep in mind drug abuse is also very rampant in rural and urban china. (honestly who can live here and be sober, after compiling this data, and the magnitude I feel as if I’ve taken hallucinogens, and my eyes are playing tricks on me).

    Building the “New China” (industrial FUBARS)

    -656,000 Smog (dirty coal, and unstandard facilities) in 2007 http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/07/070709-china-pollution.html
    -95,600 polluted water 2007


    Death according to year (eras are labeled occasionally).

    1983-1989: (Strike Hard Excutions) 24,000 (although “victims” were murderous criminals, it was a massacre purge).

    -1989: 186 (confirmed)-7000 (NATO). (wikipedia, Tianmen square article, using reliable statistics (186, deriving from a list from Tianenmen Mothers’ , an advocacy group (often perscuted).

    1990-2000’s (industrial accidents, murders, corruption and other fun FUBARs of a failed state)

    =2006: 8000 executed (amnesty international: citing alleged credible sources, (note not used in final count as already mentioned in 2006’s tally below).

    =2008:5,500+ of them school children, Szchewan earthquake shoddy buildings. (not tallied already tallied below).

    128 – Xiamen Airlines Flight 8301 (Guangzhou, China, 1990, Desparte moron hijacks plane)

    147 – coal mine (Sanjiaohe, Hongdong, Shanxi, China, April 21, 1991


    141 – China Southern Airlines Flight 3943 (Guilin, China) (24 November 1992, cheap repairs)

    Gouhou dam 243 people (wikipedia (disasters and accidents)

    Karamay theater fire 324 people (wikipedia list of diasters and accidents”
    264 – China Airlines Flight 140 (Nagoya, 1994) (stupid inexperienced idiots flying a plane!)
    160 – China Northwest Airlines flight 2303 (Near Xian, China, 6 June 1994, lazy repair men!, wikipedia China NW airlines 2303 article)
    52 – Hengyang railroad station stampede disaster, during Lunar New Year holidays of final day, Hengyang, Hunan, China, February 14, 1994

    6- Shuttle launch snafu

    91 – coal mine (Dongcun, Datong, Shanxi, China, 27 November 1996)
    29 – Under constructing Baikong bridge collapsed, Ruyuan, Shaoguan, Guandong bridge.

    89 – coal mine (Xingsheng, Pingdingshan, Henan, China, March 11, 1997)
    60 – coal mine (Beilongfeng, Fushun, Liaoning, China, May 28, 1997)
    35 – China Southern Airlines Flight 3456 (Shenzhen, China) (8 May 1997)
    127 – Rongjiawan trains disaster, (Hunan, China, 1997)
    6- launch of Intelsat 708, (same problem as the same shuttle launch in 1995! but lands in a village, lots other injured) (wikipedia article Intelsat 708)

    202 – China Airlines Flight 676 (Taipei, 1998) (poor judgement, inexperienced, pilots bribed exams etc).

    61 – China Southwest Airlines Flight 4509, (Wenzhou, Zhejiang, China, 24 February 1999, wrong lug nuts!)

    Dongdu Commercial shopping center fire 309 people (Wikipedia “lit of accidents and disasters)
    159 – coal mine (Muchonggou, Shuicheng, Guizhou, China, 26 September 2000 (wikipedia A and D)

    92 – coal mine (Gangzi, Xuzhou, Jiangsu, China, July 22, 2001
    31-Coal mine (Heilongjiang)

    21 school children in dark hallway accident (faulty planning)
    349- SARS (Guandong)
    124 – coal mine (Chengzihe, Jixi, Heilongjiang, China, 20 June 2002
    225 – China Airlines Flight 611 (Penghu Islands, 2002) (cheap repairs,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Airlines_Flight_611)
    128 – Air China Flight 129 (Busan, South Korea, 2002, stupid pilot)
    112 – China Northern Airlines Flight 6136 (Dalian, China, 2002, suicidal passenger bringing get this GASOLINE onto a plane! Honestly there is something literally in the water (another post another rant I guess. )

    86 – coal mine (Luling coal mine, Hefei, Anhui, China, 13 May 2003
    234 – PetroChina Chuandongbei natural gas field explosion, Guoqiao, Kai County, Chongqing, China, 2003
    10 (2003-2008) officially 10 people died building the Birds’ Nest Stadium, allegedly more.

    2004 (the coal mine and iron mine with in 6 DAYS)
    166 – coal mine (Chenjiashan, Tongchuan, Shaanxi, China, 28 November 2004
    148 – coal mine (Daping, Tongchuan[disambiguation needed], Henan, China, 20 October 2004
    55 – China Eastern Airlines Flight 5210 Baotou, Inner Mongolia, China, (2004, Morons forgetting to preform saftey matinance checks (ice on wing)
    60 – Shahe iron mine caught fire, Hebei, China, November 22, 2004

    2005 (FIVE coal fires in just one year!) Introduction of the execution van!
    2- Young girls trapped in a room allegedly survive accidental suffocation from a coal stove, allegedly buried alive, BEIXINZHUANG
    59 – coal mine (Xishui mine, Shanxi province, China, 20 March 2005)
    83 – coal mine (Shenlong, Fukang, Xinjiang Uygur, China, 13 July 2005)
    214 – coal mine (Sunjiawan, Fuxin, Liaoning, China, 15 February 2005) (Wikipeia accidents and disasters
    134 – coal mine (Dongfeng, Qitaihe, Heilongjiang, China, 27 November 2005
    123 – coal mine (Daxing, Xingning, Guangdong, China, 6 August 2005)
    1,770- Executions (introduction of mobile “execution mobiles” a nazi gas wagon. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-14-death-van_x.htm
    386,645- Exposure to workplace chemicals (2005, data compiled). http://extras.sltrib.com/china/
    12- Malnourishment fake Milk powder. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200504/21/eng20050421_182172.html

    6= Students trampled in school hallway (faulty design)
    24 – Nanshan Colliery disaster (Shanxi Province, China, 13 November 2006) (wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanshan_Colliery_disaster)
    8000- Executed (Amnesty International citing alleged credible sources)

    181 – coal mine with flooding (Huayuan[disambiguation needed], Xintai, Shandong, China, August 17, 2007)
    105 – coal mine (Ruizhiyuan, Linfen, Shanxi, China, 5 December 2007)\
    60- Underconstructing Tuojiang bridge collapsed in Fenghuang, Hunan, China on August 13, 2007. (shitty construction)
    2- (Foxcon, Apple makers), suicide
    32-Qinghe Special Steel Corp (Laioning), burnt to death
    19,000- (3000 University aged 16,000 Children), accidents… http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2007/07/unnatural-deaths-for-19000-students-china-daily/

    2008 ( China wins GOLD in carnage!) Olympic year…..

    Zibo, 70- trainwreck (undertrained drivers), shortly before the games. one of them was going to a city where one of the venues was going to be Tsingdao
    Anqiu 17- Trainwreck, a few months before the Zibo disaster
    3- Sanlu Tainted Melamine milk (COUNTLESS (tens of thousands)OTHERS SCREWED UP ORGANS, ie kidneys for life),
    20= Tibetans killed NGABA PROTESTS
    20- Chinese soldiers killed by Ugyhr separatists, August.
    -1718 (2008), Excutions (anmesty international) (374, of them during the OLYMPICS! 10 points for a swan dive after shot? Fuckers!)
    16 – coal mine (Ningxia Hui, China, 16 October 2008)
    254 – Illegal Tashan mine collapsed with mud-rock flow at Xiangfen, Linfen, Shanxi, China (September 2008)
    17 – Ganglu Iron and Steel Co Ltd., gas leak (Hebei, China, December 24, 2008)
    5600+ School Children (in cheap schools without rebar enforcement, Tofu buildings,http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30611523/ns/world_news-asia-pacific/),
    42- Anhui outbreak Case zero, of Hand-Foot-Mouth, disease. (spreading to other parts in China. You know that saying “Foot in mouth?” It’s just an expression for Silliness; China…. They didn’t mean you should do it literally lol. (under reported as it was the months leading up to the games). Also to note, that this the orgins of this pandemic.

    7-Yang Jia, a mentally ill unemployed young man was savagely beaten for no reason, except riding a bicycle, when his attempts at justice failed. (big surprise), he attacked a police station. (he is one of the Olympic murders). 6 (police) and Jia, executed. Yang Jia is honoured by many Chinese youths.

    4- young Business students, jumped to death in their dorm of Shanghai business school caught fire, when simple safteys could have prevented (such as a sprinkle or fire hose on the floor).

    1- A month after the world saw the beautiful olympics. 6 Harbin police beat to death a 22 year old student waiting at a trainstation. He died of his murderous injuries in the cold of a Chinese autumn. (october), Lin Songling, was an Athlete. Ironic isn’t it? This being the olympic year.


    (Est) 2006= (OFFICIAL statistics for miner accidents) http://www.presstv.ir/detail/186243.html
    8=Children caught in a stairwell trampled.
    140- Genocidal ethnic riots between Hans and Uyghristanis (Xinnang)
    1- Foxconn’s brute beating of an employee over a, misplaced IPOD prototype! caused a suicide
    30-Gas mine accident in Chongcing
    29-Mass murder suicide on a bus. Chengdu (economic stress, hardships, faulty emergency escapes, senor abuse, (family refuses to provide for an aging worker who has lost everything).
    2- A riot of ethnic discrimiation between migrant workers, Uyghirs and Hans)
    85- Hand-Foot-Mouth Disease (35 of them Children across two provinces)
    1- Woman stabs perverted Party official trying to rape her.Badong County (Deng the waitress IS THE ONCE SENT TO A MENTAL HOSPITAL). PS Communist China Fuck you
    2- Security guard rape and murders woman, he is sentenced to death.
    1-Mother of a 3 year old child murdered by violent femme employees of a hotel in Chengdu. OVER ONE FLOWER PEDAL. (Mental illness often not addressed in this Paradise for the people, the hotel settled 200,000 RMB, about 29,000 CND!!!!! Violence is not an uncommon solution over petty arguments, the Chinese LOVE to fight, this is a very statistically agreeable observeration).
    1-Man hit by a drunk driving traffic cop in Guangzhou
    9-Zhuzhou, a bridge that was condemned collapses a few days before scheduled demolition,The bridge was still in use!!!!!


    2010 (The Year of “Falling down” (reference Micheal Douglas movie about a man who goes postal after a stressful day, start of protests and mass riots).
    1-Zhuzhou, man protesting eviction, sets himself on fire.
    7-Hanzhong, Man goes crazy with knife against children at a school, because of ongoing disputes about moving issues. He was the land lord.
    42 – Henan Airlines Flight 8387, Lindu Airport, China, 24 August 2010 (corruption, bribes, pilots had ZERO Experience, save playing videogames or something)
    1 -Daliran Oil Spill (wikipedia Daliran oil spill)
    8=Nanping, A former retired doctor (who has a history of mental illness!?!!?!? a doctor!?!?!!!) worker goes crazy with a knife. (economic stress inspired psychosis-fustrations).
    9=A well to do butcher, slices 7 children, a parent, and a teacher up! (???!?!?!??! he was doing well in life so!?!?!?!)
    24=Mild Earthquake damaging buildings.
    32- Henan Mine Explosion
    14-Suicides (IN ONE MONTH!!!!), Foxconn (the Apple factory), 18 (attempted, 4 crippled for life).
    37-Crappy bridge collapses, Launchaun
    13- Plastics factory explodes, Nanjing
    2- Bombing of a Tax building, Changsha, Hunan
    4-Tin mine’s dam breaks. Xinyin (Zinjin mining)
    28-Zinjin mine leaks acid into Ting river from copper mine.
    17- Hubei, A drunk tractor driver runs people over just to get the one who quarrelled with him in a restraunt on his lunch break!
    1500+- Gansu Landslides caused by the “perfect storm”, that and over foresting.
    7- Terrorist Bomb, Aksu,Xinnang
    21- Collery fire. Yuanyang (explosions from unsafe work place, explosives for illegal mining)
    1- Self immolation protesting eviction, Yihaung
    1- A drunk Commie Princeling son of Li Guang (deputy head of security) drove his girlfriend home drunk runs over students who were roller blading.
    42- Shanghai building burns down, (Again Shoddy repair, unlicensed trades people working etc).november
    1-Zhangjiang child victim of substandard healthcare
    1-Villager run over by a steam roller’s body resembles a cartoon, elected Village elder, held down by goon thugs, and run over by big tire of gravel truck. Qian Yunhui ofZhaiqiao Village.
    40 died from Hand-foot-mouth disease
    1- Qiu a young 16 year old girl who came to Hunan Fenghuang County, with her friends for a vacation. Leapt from her hotel, after drunk brutes two of them traffic cops molested her.

    2011 (RIOTS RIOTS and MORE RIOTS:Inner Monglia, Shanghai *3, Xintang, Jasmine Revolution (across China, Chozhou, etc etc etc. ) INSANITY!
    1-ZhouZhou, Wuliduo, talented young student hangs himself with his young pioneer scarf. He was forced to copy the entirety of his text book, as a punishment by some tiger mom like teacher. He was starving and under tremendous pains.

    2-Huanbu County- Twin children murdered by mother (it’s not uncommon for Chinese families to resort to such extreme stresses in rural china, such as mental or physical illnesses are under funded. However China seems to have money for nuclear battle ships, and massive banks interesting).

    1-Farmer suicide-Shandong. After a series of heartbreaking setbacks, such as endemic plague (plagues are very common in this healthy utopia) destroying his livestock leaving him in dire peril for debts, his crops plummeted. All he wanted to do was send his daughter to school. (odd that China a educated utopia doesn’t provide for children, well maybe for 5 stripe boy’s diet).

    1-Young Accountant-overwork-Shanghai, working 18 hours a day as a excel auditor, and working for very blacklisted companies according to Chinese laws. dies of exhaustion at the age of 25

    1- young University student beaten by police or NO REASON, open coffin funeral indicates severe brusing on the youth 4th year scholar. Zhao Wei, severely beaten by fatso cops. http://www.arnie.cn/2011/03/14/violent-death-of-chinese-college-student-triggers-indignation-online/

    1- School boy ingests rat poison Xiao Nan (Little Nan), Lan San, fearful of a psychotic teacher (government employee, where does the CCP find these idiots?)

    1- Inner Monglian man named Yan, ran over by a forklift deliberately, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Xilinhot_incident#cite_note-ming1-13)
    1- Tibetan Monk immolation protest (with police putting him out, and adding insult to injury by beating his charred body, he was 17-21).
    5- Riots in Guangzhou (Xintang)
    2-Labourer killed by truck driver (dilibratly), Inner Mongolia +1 (eventual execution of truck driver to placate rioting Mongolians).
    25-Yinnan Earthquake (crappy buildings)
    3- Fuzhou bombings (march).
    4-Firework store blew up., Guangxi (shoddy safety)
    3- Truckers (Shanghai Trucker strike)
    3- Foxcon factory (apple factory), catches fire
    6 Heshan Electricity Generating Company, collapse, Guangxi
    8-Fujian Iron mine collapse (illegal mine).
    21-Uprising in Xinnang
    *23-Hubei, a trucker making a deadline crashed into a bus parked illegally on a highway fast lane (stupidity regulations etc)
    *41-Bus burning in ZHENGZHOU, over crowded safety regulations-corruption, and a nut on board setting the fire accidentally (presumably a cigarette).
    * 32-BEIJING (Bullet train crash, although an “act of God”, shoddy engineering, corruption, kick backs, bribes, women). (The Hubei bus, the Zengzhou bus, and the Beijing train, all happened in the SAME month).
    -7 another riot in Xinnang, Kashgar (July 31, 2011)
    -15 riot in Xinnang (July 14)
    -4 Construction workers blow each up with Dynamite, after a dispute over a parking spot.(Longnan, July 28)
    -3 Milk poison, Gansu, (similar to 2008’s Sanlu milk scandal)
    -3 Bomb maker in Bejing makes a bomb to support petitioners.(Aug 7)
    -7 Teenagers drown in Hohot reservoir (although very foolish to swim in these areas) August 7
    -6 Heilongjiang coal mine fire. July (30)
    -20, Southern Xinjiang, ethnic beatings on Uyghurs.

    • wtdevflnt said

      EXCELLENT WORK! I will have to reblog this list just in the name of providing a ‘just media’ source.

      • gowron said

        It just keeps on growing and growing and growing :_( all those children those poor kids. Like that one boy who drank rat poison, the other hung himsef with his young pioneer neckerchief, one other girl leaped to her death to escape a horny party member………. Poor children. I like kids.

      • gowron said

        Oh god make it stop make it stop!!!!!!! more and more and more dead ghosts keep on jumping on this bandwagon list. As if they want to be remembered and justified. the statistics just keep on growing. How do these sick fucks live with themselves, The CCP is worse than NAZIS, but yet there are no Christmas movies year after year, about how evil the Reds are how many people died. Are their lives less meaningful? The list keeps growing. :_( How can anybody view this list and not feel revusion, regardless of politics, these were PEOPLE. humans, they had lives, they had things to do, things that compiled the human culture.

    • Brewskie said

      Hail to the king, baby!

  37. I must let, your publish goes to the nerve of the topic. Your pellucidity leaves me seeking to know more. Just so comprehend, i’ll instantly grab your feed to keep up thus together with web website. Sounding Out thank you is just my little way declaring bravo for a good resource. Tackle my sweetest wishes for your subsequent publication.

  38. “New and Improved Blog Rules Version 4.2 Understanding China, One Blog at
    a Time” definitely got myself hooked on your page!
    Idefinitely will wind up being back alot more often. Thanks

  39. KJ.Morrow said

    I have been in China, 50km East of Beijing Capital Airport, for 5 years. I have seen and experienced some crazy shit but still always get a kick out of reading your stories. Keep up the good work!

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